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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

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 Re: No idea what "Word of Faith" means

Another note, Neilgin1

Can you honestly say that you know every man's heart on this forum?

Are you so bold as to state that you are the only one seeking after God? Just because we post our thoughts and ideas does that mean we don't have a prayer life or some connection with our heavenly Father?

Does it mean that we don't care what other people think?

Does it mean that we can't debate? Paul debated that is apart of reasoning. We learn by stretching our hands out to one another and taking hold, and by doing that I am embracing your thoughts and ideas of what you believe, because your sharing them me and with the body. Whether we agree or don't agree it, what matters is that we are sharing and that we are receptive to the truth.

Can you accept me the way that I am, with all my flaws and failures?

Can you accept God's investment in which you and I are? We are His heritage.

Do you love me brother? If you do, then bear with me and all that are on this forum. One of the fruit of the Spirit is Longsuffering. (one preacher said, How long is longsuffering? As long as you have to suffer)

This website is designed for many things, and because God is at the centre of it that means there are many functions and avenues in which He can use it for.

One of those avenues is for people who have a short fuse to come and partake of many different backgrounds and beliefs, and by learning to love one another and holding ones peace, the LORD will fight his battles.

Can you not see that this website is for those who are shutin, they don't have church to go to, or they have been shutout. This is their sanctuary. They come here and pray for those that may be contentious here, perhaps praying that Adminstrator won't ban them.

Have you considered that there are more than 10,000 souls that visit this site.

Allow my words to soften your heart brother. There is more to this site then you and me, much more.

We all know who we have believed. We could be all in one mega arena with christians galore and everyone is talking amongst themselves, and there is just a great noise of talking and suddenly, Christ comes out unto the stage and taps the microphone, "testing testing". The noise starts to dim down, He begins to speak, "Praise to the Father" and the whole mass of saints, in one accord says, "Praise the LORD".

We know who we have believed.

Right now your seeing the noise, but when God speaks to our hearts, we all turn in one accord, in unity, as one heart.

Look deeper my brother, and see God in each and every one of us, and by so doing, you'll see the Christ on centre stage waiting for the great moment when He will be able to call together His body in unison and one accord.

He does it everyday in different parts of the world.

He did it when He sent Carter Conlon to Zambia. He did it at Azusa Street. He did it with all the great revivals. And He is still doing it today.

And He is building you and I up for our moment, our season will come, let us not hurry God, lest we become too weak because we did not wait.

These words were meant to encourage everyone here.

Karl :-)

 2005/3/29 20:46









 Re: my brother Karl

Quote:
Can you honestly say that you know every man's heart on this forum?

Are you so bold as to state that you are the only one seeking after God? Just because we post our thoughts and ideas does that mean we don't have a prayer life or some connection with our heavenly Father




I never said that at all, nor implied it.

what I was speaking of is the argument after argument after argument. Debate is fine, but it is so evident how fractured and divided the Body of Christ after reading some of the endless arguments based on doctrine on this forum, and my point in its entiredy is this:

the only thing I know

is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

what do you think has torn apart the church for these countless generations....moving away from the centrality of that statement of Pauls.

while I was with you, I resolved to know only Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

don't ever think for a second that I dont love you my brother.

 2005/3/29 21:04









 Re:Jesus Christ and Him Crucified

I know you love me Brother Neil

But I understand what you are saying and seeing.

It can be quite disheartening and discouraging seeing and hearing all that we see on this website.

I am quite involved here, and do take into consideration each and everyone's beliefs backgrounds.(I try)

Oh the diversity, I can see our Father looking at it all, and I truly don't believe that He is disgusted with us. I think He may have more mercy for us, because we are little boys with toys, fighting over them.

But if we are older in the things of the LORD then that is a different story. If we are doing such things like that then we have not put away childish things, and we need to go back to the sincere milk of the word for we are not even fit to teach.

I haven't even been called into anything yet. I am still a project in motion, I've got so many problems, and quirks to iron out before I could be fit to be an example of the Church that will go forth in power and demonstration in the days ahead.

I love you brother, keep up the faith, its people like you that make this site work.

Karl

 2005/3/29 21:42
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: No idea what "Word of Faith" means

Quote:
the least of these nine gifts are speaking in other tongues as the Spirit give utterance.


Why do you make this judgement?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/30 2:44Profile
Didier
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Joined: 2004/11/16
Posts: 20
Calais, France

 Re: Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

Dear brothers,

I think we are diverting from the subject at hand, and getting involved with side issues; we need to get to the root of this thing. Maybe my first post on this subject was thrown in the middle of something that wasn't what I thought.

The fact is that only one person responded directly to the post I made, that is ilihan.

The whole problem, I feel, is: What do we mean by "Baptism in the Holy Spirit"? Most often when this question is asked - and this is precisely the subject of the present thread - we immediately think of the Pentecostals / Charismatics. But it shouldn't be like this. As I said in my first post we shouldn't interpret the Scriptures in the light of what goes on around us, it should be the opposite.

Our present subjetc is: "Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?" Lets try to stick to it.

Does anyone feel responding to what I wrote about it?

Didier


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Didier Lebeau

 2005/3/30 4:00Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
Greetings Friends,

I want to throw this out to you guys and I would like to see what each one of you think on this topic.

Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

There are 3 opinions that are in the main stream today.

1) When one receives the holy Spirit they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives him utterance.


this would be the classical Pentecostal standpoint.

Quote:
2)The holy Spirit becomes resident in an individual upon receiving Christ into their life. When the individual has enough faith, in time the speaking of an unknown tongue will come out of him as the Spirit gives the utterance.

I don't know of any group which believes this.

Quote:
3)The holy Spirit becomes resident in an individuals life upon receiving Christ as thier personal saviour, there is no need to speak in tongues as this is no longer an evidence to the baptism of the holy Spirit but the fruit of the Spirit is.

This would be a view held by cessationist; those who believe that the miraculous gifts, as distinct from miraculous fruit, have ceased now that the Bible revelation is complete.


There might be a 4th one or even a 5th, but these are the only ones that I know of.

Karl

There are lots but I think most have been discussed in one way or another frequently on this site.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/30 7:52Profile
Eli_Barnabas
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Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Quote:
Most often when this question is asked - and this is precisely the subject of the present thread - we immediately think of the Pentecostals / Charismatics.



Not me, brother. Do you know who I think of? The Apostles! For it was in fact the indument of the Spirit that made them the witnesses that they were! It's just been so distorted. Even the greats like Wesley and Finney understood the necessity of the Spirit and futility of doing anything without it. We too must hold to the same, "Hold to the teachings passed down".


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Eli Brayley

 2005/3/30 11:38Profile
Didier
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Joined: 2004/11/16
Posts: 20
Calais, France

 Re: Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

I agree with you Eli. But it also speaks to me about all the believers functioning in the local assemblies unto the mutual edification of the body of Christ, 1 Cor. 14:26.


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Didier Lebeau

 2005/3/30 12:21Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Sorry, Didier, I don't understand you last post... were you saying that I didn't believe the Spirit was for now? I'm just confused, that's all

-I believe the Holy Spirit was there at creation

-I believe the Spirit filled certain people in the Old Testament

-I believe the Holy Spirit was [b]poured out[/b] at Pentecost after Jesus went back into heaven

-I believe the Holy Spirit fills us to give us power for the furthering of God's Kingdom and the destruction of the kingdom of darkness

-I believe in the necessity for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

-I believe the above statement is true for all believers ever since the Day of Pentecost

-I believe the Holy Spirit can fill me today!

So be it Lord, Amen.


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Eli Brayley

 2005/3/30 13:16Profile
Didier
Member



Joined: 2004/11/16
Posts: 20
Calais, France

 Re: Is the baptism in the holy Spirit for us today?

Eli,

The question is "Is the baptism in the Holy Spirit for us today?"

I am simply going to restate what I said in my first post:

1) The baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS) is universal.
We should not separate salvation (being born anew) and the baptism of the HS. The believer is baptised in the HS at the moment of salvation, all believers are baptised by the HS: 1 Cor. 12:13. Notice the "all" in this key verse. This is confirmed by Eph. 4:4, where it says that there is "one baptism".

1) We are baptised in the body of Christ
This is what is said in 1 Cor. 12:13. There is "one baptism" and "one body", therefore to be baptised in the HS is to be baptised into the body of Christ. 1) All true believers are baptised by the HS, 2) we are all baptised into the one body. This is confirmed by passages like Acts 2:47 and 5:14, where it says that it was the Lord Himself that added to the church.


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Didier Lebeau

 2005/3/30 13:49Profile





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