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Angyl
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Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Re:

Quote:
The question I ask myself - if men and women are being saved and living fruitful Christian lives with English translations other than the KJV - then who are the KJVO people striving against?



Well it is said of us (people) that our perfect God has nothing but crooked sticks to work with.

Likewise, I would contend that, yes, many millions do get saved and grow reading other Bible versions...some incredibly corrupt and, IMO outright hellish works too, [i](Such as The Message)[/i]...

that is simply a matter of them being saved DESPITE what they are reading, however. Praise God we have a savior that can work through evil as well as good...can do his wonders in the good circumstances and in the bad.

God doesn't need perfection (humans or human works) to save people. If He did, none of us would be here.

Having said all that, what we "KJVO"s strive against is the [b][i]ever increasing deviation from the truth![/b][/i]. Granted..."what we PERCEIVE as truth."

If you don't stand for something...you'll fall for anything. Krispy is absolutely right in saying that we can't both be right. either the KJV is right and the other versions based on other manuscripts are [b]NOT[/b] the word of God or both are wrong...it is simply not possible for both sides to be right.

KJVOs have taken a stand, that's all, and no matter what your view, on a fundamental level, that is a sensible thing to do, because if you can't make up your mind, Satan will have no problems seducing you into thinking his way.

I choose to be 100% right or 100% wrong with the KJV. Those who don't make a choice and believe any version is okay as long as it sounds good to them, are setting themselves up to be nothing but 100% wrong when the time comes for truth.

 2005/3/4 15:43Profile
Angyl
Member



Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Re:

Oops...double post.

 2005/3/4 15:46Profile









 Re:

I found this speech given by Ronald Reagan regarding the KJV... believe it or not. I find it quite interesting. Obviously I do not consider Reagan to have been a Biblical scholar... but I think his speech really hits on the whole "The KJV is hard to understand" issue.

Yes, his approach to it was simplistic... but thats ok. Sometimes on this website everyone thinks too hard about things anyway.

Check it out:

[i]The following transcript is one of Ronald Reagan's famous radio addresses. In this address (which aired September 6, 1977), Ronald Reagan, the great orator, eloquently gives his thoughts on the "Good News Bible" (also called the Good News for Modern Man and Today's English Version) in comparison to the Authorized Version or the King James Bible.[/i]

[b]What would you say if someone decided Shakespeare's plays, Charles Dicken's novels, or the music of Beethoven could be rewritten & improved?

I'll be right back. . .

Writing in the journal "The Alternative", Richard Hanser, author of The Law & the Prophets and Jesus: What Manner of Man Is This?, has called attention to something that is more than a little mind boggling. It is my understanding that the Bible (both the Old & New Testaments) has been the best selling book in the entire history of printing.

Now another attempt has been made to improve it. I say another because there have been several fairly recent efforts to quote "make the Bible more readable & understandable" unquote. But as Mr. Hanser so eloquently says, "For more than 3 1/2 centuries, its language and its images, have penetrated more deeply into the general culture of the English speaking world, and been more dearly treasured, than anything else ever put on paper." He then quotes the irreverent H. L. Mencken, who spoke of it as purely a literary work and said it was, "probably the most beautiful piece of writing in any language."

They were, of course, speaking of The Authorized Version, the one that came into being when the England of King James was scoured for translators & scholars. It was a time when the English language had reached it's peak of richness & beauty.

Now we are to have The Good News Bible which will be in, "the natural English of everyday adult conversation." I'm sure the scholars and clergymen supervised by the American Bible Society were sincerely imbued with the thought that they were taking religion to the people with their Good News Bible, but I can't help feeling we should instead be taking the people to religion and lifting them with the beauty of language that has outlived the centuries.

Mr. Hanser has quoted from both the St. James Version & the Good News Bible some well known passages for us to compare. A few thousand years ago Job said "How forcible are right words!" [Job 6:25] The new translators have him saying "Honest words are convincing." That's only for openers. There is the passage [Eccl. 1:18], "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow". Is it really an improvement to say instead, "The wiser you are, the more worries you have; the more you know the more it hurts."

In the New Testament, in Mathew, we read "The voice of the one crying in the wilderness. Prepare ye the way." [Matthew 3:3] The Good News version translates that, "Someone is shouting in the desert. Get the road ready." It sounds like a straw boss announcing lunch hour is over.

The hauntingly beautiful 23rd Psalm is the same in both versions, for a few words, "The Lord is my shepherd" but instead of continuing "I shall not want" we are supposed to say "I have everything I need."

The Christmas story has undergone some modernizing but one can hardly call it improved. The wondrous words "Fear not: for; behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy" has become, "Don't be afraid! I am here with good news for you."

The sponsors of the Good News version boast that their Bible is as readable as the daily paper – and so it is. But do readers of the daily news find themselves moved to wonder, "at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth"? Mr. Hanser suggests that sadly the "tinkering & general horsing around with the sacred texts will no doubt continue" as pious drudges try to get it right. "It will not dawn on them that it has already been gotten right."

This is Ronald Reagan. Thanks for listening.

— aired September 6, 1977[/b]

 2005/3/4 15:57
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
They were, of course, speaking of The Authorized Version, the one that came into being when the England of King James was scoured for translators & scholars. It was a time when the English language had reached it's peak of richness & beauty.


Surprisingly this is one of the main issues with the KJV; it was specifically designed to be rich and beautiful and to have a ring to it. The question is does the original have the same majestic ring to it? Well, the New Testament is written in market-Greek.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/4 17:57Profile
PTywama3
Member



Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA

 Re:

From personal experience and observation, it seems to me that the translations do serve a purpose. Give a person in the modern western culture a KJV, and he'll likely laugh at you and walk away horribly bored. Give him an NIV, and he might just sink his teeth in.

Since it does take study to effectively read, the KJV is more of a developed taste - something that quite a few people in the Body come to enjoy thoroughly. It also has a high number of preestablished resources from Godly men of the past. It is my particular version of choice.

But I use the NASB 95 ed. to compare manuscripts and such, I don't think ignoring the age of the Alexandrian texts and the several major differences (i.e. Mark 16) is a wise thing for a studying Christian, especially since respecting differences is a great way to avoid arguments instead of debates.

And the Message... well, I would say don't ever take it to be the Real McCoy, but a level of eloquence is offered in the text that really can enrich my use of the word as a tool, and may even spark some new understanding. Just as long as I check it against a more direct translation and don't go hinging myself on such translated parts like "I was out of step with you for a long time, in the wrong since before I was born." Ok, so I think he messed up the psalms pretty badly.

I personally believe that a more literal translation should be a mainstay of any Christian's walk, but the scripture is difficult at best to understand. Many without the time and patience or knowledge/capacity to find and use a lot of resources still have to be adequately fed by the Word. If that means handing them an NIV instead of a KJV or NASB because they won't read them, then its God's realm and not something I can or even should worry about right now.


_________________
David Reynolds

 2005/3/4 18:03Profile
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Re:

I find that many who prefer the KJV only are those that where raised with that particular translation. It is comfortable to them. THe way you can gage any translation (or at least the way i've been trained is to see if it presents the plan of redemption and salvation clearly enough to get a person saved. Even a crummy trnaslation like the NLT or the NRSV (no offense, excuse my choice of words) present the basic facts of the Gospel well enough for the ungodly to find repentance. Besides amid all the debate about translations (most recent being the TNIV P.U. ot be stankin!) you have to remember that God will not suffer His word to see corruption. (He will not suffer his holy one to see corruption, yes it is speaking about the fleshly body of our Lord, but io believe that this statment encompasses the Word of God as well). It will preserve it's self. Even those God hating people in the so called "Jesus Seminar" when they went through and marked evrything that they "thought jesus did not say" even though they only attributed to him around 10% of what we have in our bibles, it still professed his diety, his resercuttion, his suffering and his redemptiive power and healing power.
i think it all comes down to the way you were raised. i was raised to major on the minors, to make much ado anbout nothing (i beleive in Holy living, don't get me wrong) but there are more pressing issues facing the heathen than wear a pair of short pants and what version of the Bible he MUST READ. Just my 2 pennies.


_________________
David

 2005/3/4 18:23Profile
PTywama3
Member



Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA

 Re:

I was raised on the NIV, and quite enjoy the KJV. I think a lot more of it might have to deal on where God wants you to go. KJV is a great book to be packing around for missions, because it seems like the most established protestant english translation in the world. Its what I ran into in any case, and out of the blue I picked it up and used it as my main translation less than a year before I was out there.


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David Reynolds

 2005/3/4 18:31Profile





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