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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

A second is a measurement that, according to Relativity, is dependent upon relative placement in "space-time." God is not bound to space, time or space-time.

My statement was simply a musing about the unlimited power and authority of God. Moreover, I wasn't suggesting that God "stretches" a second. I am simply saying that God can make more things happen within a second.

For instance, a man typically ages for one second during one second. However, it is possible for God to "speed up" that aging process to where he ages 70 years in a mere second. Now, God probably doesn't go around doing such things often, but it is not outside of the scope of His power and authority. However, during Creation, he could have made what we would assume to be TRILLIONS OF YEARS worth of acts in six days.

Remember: The laws of nature did not exist when God created this world. He is the Author of such things rather than a follower. God designed the laws of nature (observed through "science") as "guidelines" for the universe subsequent to Creation...yet He is not bound to them.

All that I am trying to say is that we can't approach God through the scope of human understanding of "science." Science is all about "observation" and we cannot "observe" just how He created the universe. As was true with Job, God did not consult us when He created the world and the universe. Yet, men feel free to speculate about it all of the time.


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Christopher

 2012/12/18 17:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

hi staff--

is there not physical death and spiritual death?

The lions and tigers eating the plants in the garden were killing plant cells when they were eating them, weren't they?

We know that creatures ate prior to the fall. Why did they have to eat?


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Todd

 2012/12/18 18:28Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

Hi TMK,

The Bible differentiates between plants and animals and even between land animals and fish.

Theologically, eating a plant is not death.


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/12/18 18:52Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Tmk,
I think that whether Christian or non the reason to add more than the literal 7 day creation and adding millions of years is to accomodate the view that evolution is possible.What is peculiar to Christians who believe in millions of years is that they choose to believe atheist secular scientists over Christian Scientists.I can see why Christians who believe in a literal 7days young earth creation get stirred up by the issue;because they see it as an assault on the role of Jesus as a saviour but the reason Christians who believe in millions of years gets stirred up is because they want to acomodate world science view and try to make the gospel more plausible/acceptable to the world.

It is clear that the death that entered through Adam was Physical death and Spiritual death in the sense that
perfection was lost.Death entered humans through Adam;Their was no death-life-death-life death cycle regarding humans before Adam and thus Adam was not the result of evolution.
Adam is clearly the first person created and is a real person because it gives us his age and the length of his days,his children and is also referenced in the new testament as existing and his importance.
Regarding plants and animals-
What happened the plant cells in our present world may have been different to what happened at the beginning?Maybe the cell didnt die when eaten before the fall.
When Jesus ate the fish on the shore after he was risen and perfected what happen the fish in his stomach,we dont know how it was processed when a perfected body was in question.
We know the perfected body did not need nourishment for sure and whether with a perfected body digestion is nessacary I dont know except with Jesus it wasnt.Perhaps before the fall eating was for a different purpose,
Yours Staff

 2012/12/18 19:41Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi All,
Just a few points:
For evolution even if it were possible which I am convinced it is not their would have to be a series of children been born over millions of years which couldnt happen as Childbirth came in after Adam n Eve.We dont even know would their have been childbirth if Sin had not occurred;in heaven their is no husband and wife.When we go to heaven or are raptured we will get an incoruptable body.

Did Adam have an incorruptable body,if he did then is digesting a corruption?

Also the bible says that "all the days of Adam were 930 years"
not some but all which means that included day 6 and 7 of creation til his death.If 6 and 7 are literal days their is no reason to doubt days 1 through 5 as been literal either.

It is easier to go with a literal interpretation of the bible than not.I dont buy the arguement that why we dont agree with a literal interpretation is that it has to do with the noble search for truth,it is to accommodate the world view of millions of years in an attempt to make the gospel more acceptable,
Thanks for considering my views Staff

 2012/12/18 20:14Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Who are we going to listen to, God or man? If we can well trace the geneologies of the Bible why would we deny them? It seems they give us a well defined range of the earths age. Definately portrays a young earth model.

What God made was good. Then because of man's rebellion sin and death entered the world. Does anyone think that death and decay are good? Would God describe it as good? Denying the biblical truth that death entered the world when Adam and Eve sinned is an attack on the Gospel of Christ.

The Lord does give knowledge and reason, to His enemies, so this doesn't mean that scientist don't have any giftings or smarts. However it does mean that unbelieving scientist will in many things will perceive and teach facts wrongly.

It seems to me that the closer one gets toward evolutionism the greater the decay of their Gospel preaching.

Isa 8:19 And when they say to you, "Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter," should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?
Isa 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.


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Rick

 2012/12/18 21:10Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

For the record, I would like to say I believe the WORD when it says that God made the world, the universe in the 'evening and the morning were the ____ day' time frame.

We all benefit from scientific studies, great advances have been made in our lifetimes with new discoveries being made all the time. However, what is stated as fact, promoted as fact, marketed as fact is often modified, changed or discarded with the passing of time. So, how reliable is 'scientific studies'?

In my lifetime so many studies have been made that told us this and that is unhealthy, should not eat it because it will cause 'whatever' and hasten your march to an early grave only to be debunked a few years later. In fact the thing that was told to be eschewed is now being promoted as being healthy! This has happened so many times I no longer listen to the experts and eat what I want - scientific studies be hanged! Actually, most of the time there is money involved - degrade an old reliable but replace it with a new product we just made that will enhance your existence!

Since this is the case with things I live with, what is there to make me believe this mindset does not permeate other disciplines?


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Sandra Miller

 2012/12/18 21:34Profile
Lotis
Member



Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 84


 Re:

The ONLY POSSIBLE explanation for everything appearing older than 6,000-10,000 years is that God created a "mature" universe. Whether carbon dating is inaccurate or not is irrelevant...it would take much longer for the light from the stars in the sky to reach us than a million years let alone 10,000. Here is the problem however, we have absolutely no evidence in the bible that God did create a mature universe...you could argue that he did, based on the fact that light from the stars and sun seem to be present on earth at the point of their creation.

But there are many other factors pointing towards the universe being MUCH older than that...do a simple search on Google for "evidence against a young earth theory" and see what you come up with. I just read an article on cosmogenic nuclide dating, which is a form of dating totally separate from carbon dating that also demonstrates that the earth is much older than thousands of years... Don't worry, the bad science wont get on you ;)

I have absolutely NO problem with anyone believing the earth is young, because frankly, it is completely possible an omnipotent God could create the universe in its current state. But you have to ask yourself...why would he? Is he TRYING to trick us poor humans? Is he TRYING to make himself look less credible in the eyes of the secular world? Is he TRYING to steer people away from himself? I doubt it, considering Romans tells us he uses the beauty of his creation to display and direct people to himself, so much so that it should be obvious to even the heathen.

The question many of us have to ask ourselves is not "how old is the earth?", it's "what would happen to my beliefs if I am wrong?" Is our faith so weak that we can't accept that these very probable scientific explanations for the universe do not and can not remove one iota of God's greatness? Is our faith based on the fact that evolution is false and the earth is young, or is it based on Christ? If they found out alien life existed on mars tomorrow, or came up with some inexplicable, undeniable proof that evolution is right and we are wrong, or that the earth is billions of years old, what would that matter to us? Our faith is based on Christ, not the creation story, and especially not some foolish and blind battle against science.

Is the creation story literal? Maybe. But evidence SEEMS to point in a less literal beginning for mankind...but so what? I don't care much how the earth was formed or how we came to be, because I believe God was the artist behind it all either way, and my faith is based on Christ and him alone. Not on science or our gimmicky christian ways to try and explain the "boogy man" of science away. Every argument we could possible come up with in either direction of this questions has been brought up before and explained away by both sides. There is nothing new under the sun, people much wiser and smarter than us have pondered these questions, the fact remains...we don't know.


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John

 2012/12/18 21:35Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

Hi Lotis,

There are many creation models in existence that show the plausibility of a 6,000yr old creation time frame.

What's not talked about are the equally daunting problems that "old earthers" have with the universe.

The universe has been recently measured at 150 billion light years across. That's a major problem for a 15 billion year old universe. The measurements would be 75 billion light years in either direction. If light and time are constants and the universe is only 15 billion years old then we should only be about to measure 30 billion light years across or 15 billion light years in either direction.

You are free to believe what you like and I won't try to convince you otherwise. But there are "young earth" creation models that make sense of the evidence we find in the earth and in the universe.

Edit:
Here is a link to several articles on astrophysics:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers#/topic/astrophysics


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/12/19 0:26Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: Who is Omniscient?

The word science comes from the Latin "scientia," meaning knowledge.

To poscess OmniSCIENCE is to have ALL knowledge.

I am not Omniscient ( I do not have ALL knowledge). Only God is Omniscient. I trust God above any other source of (lesser) knowledge.
If God says it, I trust Him because only He KNOWS.

How He does it, I don't know. I don't need to know how, but just that He does and did. Maybe I'm too simple, but hey...I'm happy!


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Dave

 2012/12/19 5:14Profile





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