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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Stillborn False Converted Christians, can they be "born again?"

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dougkristen
Member



Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Stillborn False Converted Christians, can they be "born again?"

Wow! That's a mouthfull... but something to think about...

What if you find out that your "conversion" was false and that you might not know if you are saved and truly converted.

What if you come to the conslusion that you are a false convert and that you were converted before the Holy Spirit was able to do a work in you before you were born again and you are now dead as a sillborn Christian? is there hope of true conversion again?

Grace,
Doug


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a Jesus freak

 2005/3/4 8:53Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Stillborn False Converted Christians, can they be "born again?"

Joh 5:21 Just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to those he chooses.

A little confused here.
Think I know what you are driving at but...

Quote:
that you were converted before the Holy Spirit was able to do a work in you before you were born again


There is only one conversion, one re-birth and so it can only be either true or false. Many of us had been mis-led in times past, caught up into all kinds of false doctrines and reaching back to a point in time as a definite marker can be difficult for some. Myself, it is with a backward glance that I believe there was 'the night' and yet nothing changed straight away, it was many months before I even picked up the scriptures and then years of confusion and WOF, prosperity assumptions and the untangling of all that.

Birth then growth and as often true to form, it is just as often ugly and awkward.

So, not sure where you are going with this...


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Mike Balog

 2005/3/4 9:24Profile









 I was a counterfeit Christian


For over 15 years I considered myself a "born again" Christian. I had gone forward in a church, and asked Jesus Christ into my heart and life as my personal Savior. I embraced the doctrines and practices of Christianity. I confessed that Jesus Christ was Lord. Not only did I say the sinners prayer many times but I also led many others to pray it also. All this was in vain for I had never received Christ's Life inside me. I was still living for myself and had done all this from a purely selfish heart. I wanted to go to heaven and still be free to sin.

I considered myself a true believer because of my experiences and what I did "in His name". I spoke in tongues in my private life and in the church. I also prophesied with the stamp of approval of the church leaders. I had received what was called the baptism in the Holy Spirit and had been told that tongues were the sure evidence of it.. I was very active in the church and even had a ministry in evangelism. I was on the radio and television and had many that I called converts. I also was training for missionary work. This was all done when I was not truly born again. I was only living for myself and using God and these things only to further my own selfish interests. My own deception lasted more than 15 years. God had to place me in serious circumstances before my certainty was broken.

Because I truly believed that I was a Christian, the gospel had little affect on me. If it was not for God’s love and grace I would still be in that self deceived state. God placed me in some very humbling circumstances before I would even consider the possibility that I was not saved. I spent much time in seeking God, praying and Bible study. I was very serious with God and was willing to do all that was necessary to be right with Him. He lovingly dealt with me until I knew I was not a true Christian and the reason. I knew that I was never born again at all! I was still my own king and that I had never really submitted myself to Christ's rulership over me.

Thank God that He was so loving to me even while I lived in this state of rebellion against Him. Once I realized my sinful state and His gracious offer of salvation, I threw my miserable self at Christ's feet knowing that I truly deserved the punishment of Hell but Christ made me a NEW CREATION IN HIM!

I think that many who call themselves Christian maybe deceived also.

 2005/3/4 9:34
jsb515
Member



Joined: 2005/2/28
Posts: 12


 Re: I was a counterfeit Christian

I believe once saved always saved. When you accepted Christ did you believe it will all your heart, did you mean that prayer you said when you cried for salvation ? Then your saved by Grace. Satan will try his hardest to crack your heart and if start having any doubt your saved then pray the prayer again! its better to make sure then to be unsure. Follow God in obedience and you recieve a blessing for sure. I know im saved but im not perfect I still sin, and I thank the Lord that I can come to him in my dirty state to let him wash me clean for him to wash my feet, to come clean white as snow. The Lord is good and if you meant your prayer your saved ;)

 2005/3/4 9:52Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: what I see

I saw this in my life and see it in others too.When I was saved,i.e."born of the Spirit of God", I didn't have any church back ground or knowledge of God.I lacked the character qualities asscoiated with that of godly men and women I saw around me.While going through life in the midst of all my selfishness and foolishness and many many troubles the Lord developed character qualities in me that mirror the teachings of Jesus in my daily life.What happens sometimes in life is we sin, sin affects faith, our ability to respond to God properly. I have to cut this short but basically God uses process to bring us full circle and to repentance inorder that we might be changed as looking in a mirror darkly from glory to glory.Sometimes during this process you may feel disconnected or even lost.But It's still a faith walk and we never arrive until we hear Him say well done thou good and faithful servant.....enter.


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D.Miller

 2005/3/4 10:31Profile









 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom


Matt. 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Please take my word for it. When God proved to me that I was not a christian, I knew it to be true.

 2005/3/4 10:55
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom

Doug,

In America, we think we have believed because we believe it intellectually. But in the Greek, the word believe is an active verb and more than a belief in the mind. It's a belief that must be walked out in how we live our life.

Of course, there's hope for conversion for you. The Holy Spirit is what draws us to Jesus and convicts us of our need for repentance. It's nothing that we merit or work up.

I would strongly suggest reading a book that I believe you can find on SI or at least on the Internet. It's a book entitled by John Bunyan entitled "Grace Abounding to the chief of Sinners."

I can't tell you how many years I wasted feeling the way you did. Can God ever forgive me for my sinful heart? Is there any grace for me? Will the blood of Jesus wash my heart clean and give me victory over sin?

Doug, I can only say with tears in my eyes as I type this is that same grace that God has given me is available to you. He's not holding out on you but he's calling you to himself. Please don't turn Him away.


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Ed Pugh

 2005/3/4 11:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
When you accepted Christ did you believe it will all your heart, did you mean that prayer you said when you cried for salvation ? ... if (you) start having any doubt your saved then pray the prayer again! its better to make sure then to be unsure.



I kind of agree, and I kinda dont. We dont see a "prayer of salvation" anywhere in the Bible. There isnt some mystical magical formula to get saved.

Salvation manifests itself in a changed life. If there is no change, then there has been no salvaiton. Salvation and regeneration go hand in hand. If there has been no regeneration, then the symbolism of baptism means nothing at all. Many people say that you can lose your salvation... but I contend that those who turn from the faith never were really changed in the first place. Not on the inside anyway. I've known several people who have "fallen away" who seemed to really have it going on for awhile... but as it turned out they held onto to the old life, and never put it to death.

We all sin, and I believe we all go thru periods where we let sin get a foothold... but there is a difference between getting off track and never actually being saved.

I believe the reason we are even having this discussion is because modern evangelism has failed. We've turned churches into amusement parks in an attempt to draw the world in... even tho Jesus plainly said "GO INTO" the world. We've watered down the gospel and promoted the "Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life" message. We tell them "Come to Jesus and He will make you happy" ... without explaining to them that yes, there is joy in the Lord... but your life may be miserable and fill with persecution. So, the first sign of trouble, many new "believers" jump ship and swim back to shore.

No, the church in America has is completely wrong.

No one can be truly saved until they are completely convinced of their wretchedness before God. Until then... they have no idea why they even need salvation. And the church is not convincing people of this. Is it a hard message? Yep... it sure is. But thats what we're called to preach. Count the cost... pick up your cross.

Krispy

 2005/3/4 11:39
jsb515
Member



Joined: 2005/2/28
Posts: 12


 Re:

if you believe and fully mean your prayer yes there should be a change in your life... and also your right about the christian life is not all joy and God will test our faith like it says in 1 James chapter 1 if you jump ship and go back to your old life then you are not sold out to Jesus. Kripsy I fully agree with you. The last church I was at was like a theme park and never really told the trails as a christian you will face. But my new church the pastor is great. He did a great sermon on faceing our gaints in life last tuesday night for a mens get together.

 2005/3/4 12:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
if you believe and fully mean your prayer yes there should be a change in your life...



Yes, but that change has to be brought on by two things... the Holy Spirit, and the persons full appreciation of what they have been saved from. Convincing someone to say a prayer and then hold 'em under water for 30 seconds doesnt mean a thing if first they are not convinced of their sinful state.

If they are not convinced of how lost and dead they are, then they will attempt to make changes on their own under their own strength... which is a recipe for disaster.

Krispy

 2005/3/4 12:23





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