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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : the two witnesses = the church of the last days?

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Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 the two witnesses = the church of the last days?

Revelations 11:4-6 "These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them , he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire"

Could it be that the two witnesses described in this passage are not literally two men? Most attribute this passage to Elijah and Moses, and understandably so. We know that it was Elijah who had power from God to shut the heavens from rain, and we know it was Moses who brought plagues to the earth and struck the waters with blood. But we also know in Revelation, while many things are literal, some things also are not. Like the 7 heads, or the beast from the sea, or the dragon. Now this is not literally talking about 7 heads, or some dragon breathing fire. We know this to be symbolic of the kingdoms in the last hour, the antichrist and satan. Yet we are quick to assume the two witnesses are literally Elijah and Moses. Now I am not going to be quick to say they are not, but let's look deeper into this..

Two olive trees. Where else in Scripture do we hear about olive trees. Romans 9-11 there is a brief discussion of Paul in regarsd to olive trees. He tells us that we (the Gentiles ) are a "wild olive tree". He goes on to say that we have been grafted into the fatness of the olive tree (the Jews). We know that Moses was a Hebrew. However, Elijah was not a Hebrew. He was a Tishbite, from the inhabitants of Gilead. Elijah was a Gentile. We know that in the last days there is going to be a mighty revival amongst the Jewish people. Romans 11 tells us that when the fullness of the Gentiles has come, all Israel will be saved.

All this to say..could Revelation 11 be talking about the church of the last hour? Jesus talked about John the Baptist being the Elijah to come. He obviously didn't mean John the Baptist was literally Elijah. He was speaking spiritually. But then He goes on to say that before the great and dreadful day of the Lord, He is going to send Elijah the prophet. In my personal opinion, I believe He's talking about the church. I believe the two witnesses is the Jewish/Gentile church of the last hour. God no longer just pours out His Spirit on specific men. It is sons and daughters who prophesy, menservants and maidservants, young men and old men seeing dreams and visions. It is a people. It is the body of Christ who He now works through. There is no distinctions and no favoritism. Could it be that the church in the last days will have such authority? I believe so.

You might ask, well it says in Revelation 11 that these two witnesses will die and the whole world will see it. Then God will call down from heaven and breath life into these two witnesses and bring them up to heaven in a cloud. Some say that is referring to Elijah and Moses being killed again, and the whole world watching on a television screen these 2 witnesses raised to life again in Jerusalem. Read Matthew 24 and look at the similiarities to Revelation 11. Jesus says that His gospel will be preached as a testimony to the ends of the earth. And He said that there will tribulation all over the earth. And after the gospel is preached, the END will come. After the two witnesses die and are taken up to heaven, what does it say will happen next? It says woe to those who are still on the earth, for the third woe is about to come. What is that third woe? Matthew 24 says in v.28 "wherever the carcass is, there the eagle is gathered" v.29 then says "IMMEDIATELY after THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS, the sun will be darkened..moon give no light..stars falling..powers shaken..the Son of Man will APPEAR" Jesus second coming! But notice it says He will return immediately after the tribulation and the gospel preached to the ends of the earth. Could the two witnesses being killed and raised to life have to do with that? Could it be the martyrdom and persecution of the Jewish/Gentile church, those scattered from the four corners who came to Jerusalem? And then Christ calls them up with a loud voice? I honestly have no idea, but I have a wild imagination. Please feel free to share some thoughts on this...

 2005/3/3 15:25Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2737
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: the two witnesses = the church of the last days?

Quote:
However, Elijah was not a Hebrew. He was a Tishbite, from the inhabitants of Gilead. Elijah was a Gentile.



Gilead was divided among the tribes of Gad and Mannasseh, so it is possible that Elijah was a native of one of those tribes or possibly he was a gentile as you say, but we really don't know.

I have heard this similar teaching about the two witnesses before only it was that Elijah was the Jewish branch and Enoch was the Gentile.

Not sure what to think of it all. I only know I need to watch and be ready for Christ's return. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/3/3 16:31Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

amen to that. Even so, come Lord Jesus

 2005/3/3 17:59Profile









 Re: the two witnesses = the church of the last days?

Mattie wrote:

Quote:
You might ask, well it says in Revelation 11 that these two witnesses will die and the whole world will see it. Then God will call down from heaven and breath life into these two witnesses and bring them up to heaven in a cloud. Some say that is referring to Elijah and Moses being killed again, and the whole world watching on a television screen these 2 witnesses raised to life again in Jerusalem. Read Matthew 24 and look at the similiarities to Revelation 11. Jesus says that His gospel will be preached as a testimony to the ends of the earth. And He said that there will tribulation all over the earth. And after the gospel is preached, the END will come. After the two witnesses die and are taken up to heaven, what does it say will happen next? It says woe to those who are still on the earth, for the third woe is about to come. What is that third woe? Matthew 24 says in v.28 "wherever the carcass is, there the eagle is gathered" v.29 then says "IMMEDIATELY after THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS, the sun will be darkened..moon give no light..stars falling..powers shaken..the Son of Man will APPEAR" Jesus second coming! But notice it says He will return immediately after the tribulation and the gospel preached to the ends of the earth. Could the two witnesses being killed and raised to life have to do with that? Could it be the martyrdom and persecution of the Jewish/Gentile church, those scattered from the four corners who came to Jerusalem? And then Christ calls them up with a loud voice? I honestly have no idea, but I have a wild imagination. Please feel free to share some thoughts on this...



This is quite a mouthful, but we will try to sift thru it.

Firstly the shear idea that there is Jewish church and a Gentile church are two is folly. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, bond or free, all are on in Christ Jesus.

Yes we as an wild olive branch are grafted in the olive tree, but the tree is not Israel, the tree is Jesus, the branches are both Jew and Gentile. We were grafted in because there was an Apostasy that ocurred in the first century and many Gentiles were grafted in.

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

Moving on....Many believe that Elijah is going to come in our future to prepare the way of the LORD, but this is another misplaced prophetic utterance that belongs in the past.

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Both John and Jesus were unique. Both had a body of flesh that housed two spirits that came from heaven. One was Elijah, and the other was the LORD from heaven.

[color=006600]The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.[/color]

Elijah did come and prepared the way of the LORD, because before John there was over 400 years of silence. There was not a prophet that peeped a word from God, because God was silent. When Elizebeth was filled with the holy Spirit that was the first utterance that God gave in over 400 years, and then Mary uttered. And then John came on the scene and then Jesus.

John did turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the children's heart to thier fathers, as his message was repentance.

Mattie brought out some good interesting points regarding the two olive trees. Very interesting indeed.



 2005/4/25 22:13





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