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 Peace, but at what price?

In 1939 Neville Chamberlain the Prime Minister of England thought he could negotiate a peace accord with Hitler. He went to Hitler and asked what it would take appease him. Hitler asked for part of Czeckoslavakia. Without any consideration to the Czechs. Chamberlain hammered out an agreement with Hitler who promised not to take any more land.

Chamberlain returned to Britain with the classic statement. We have peace in our time. Thus England rested under the illusion of peace. And Hitler grabbed more of Europe. A compromise was made and England paid for it.

Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.

Bearmaster standing down.

 2012/12/8 1:22









 Re: Peace, but at what price?

Brother Blaine you shouldn't believe everything you read in history books. At this very instant I am sitting in a building which was designed in 1936 and built in 1938. It is just one building amongst 10 others like it. Each building is between 16,000 and 80,000 square feet. This gathering of buildings is just one of 20 similar gatherings built in preparation for war with Germany. Each site had 50,000 men working to erect them in just one year 37/38. The cost today would be several billion pounds sterling. They are small bomb proof and built to the highest standard. They were built by men because of the foresight of other men who comprehended that war was inevitable. England could not stomach Hitler and was always going to be his enemy.

Neville Chamberlain was a weak minded man who at the time of the piece of paper believed that he was dying. In the end he lived for another 15 years after the war itself. God raised up another man Churchill who said at the time, how dreadful and fearful it was that God could raise up such a man as himself who took delight in war and had such a dread mind to persist in it.

Today this building I am presently sitting in is dark and cold yet it belongs to the saints of God and therefore God Himself. It will be used for many things one of which will be as an end time sanctuary for the most fearful. Things are not always as they seem brother. Behind every Chamberlain there is a Churchill. Chamberlain was English aristocratic. Churchill was also a nobleman yet he was also the son of an American mother whom he preferred over his father.

 2012/12/8 2:35
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Without supporting Bearmaster's intention in starting this thread, I'd like to point out that your take on Neville Chamberlain is not accurate.

The Munich accord which Chamberlain had brokered was met with widespread approval in the media. Upon his return to Britain, he was invited by the king onto the balcony of Buckingham Palace where he was met with thunderous applause.

Peter Hitchens provides a summary of the situation of that time here: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2011/01/colin-firth-in-the-kings-speech-versus-the-real-story.html (final paragraphs)

His view is that the desire for peace was not wrong in itself, but Chamberlain's mistake was that he trusted Hitler.

 2012/12/8 4:12Profile









 Re: Peace, but at what price?

Quote:
Without supporting Bearmaster's intention in starting this thread, I'd like to point out that your take on Neville Chamberlain is not accurate.

The Munich accord which Chamberlain had brokered was met with widespread approval in the media. Upon his return to Britain, he was invited by the king onto the balcony of Buckingham Palace where he was met with thunderous applause.



Yes brother I understand the historical point and the enthusiasm which Chamberlain received after the “agreement” with Hitler, which Blaine convoluted. I have no doubt that Mr Chamberlain hoped beyond hope that war would not come as did those poor men and women who believed Mr Chamberlain. However their was a preparation for war which belied the hope and drew more from other men who approved the preparations. In any event this is a spiritual forum not an historical one as such and I was really trying to make a spiritual point as was Blain of course. I wanted to leave room for the Lord. But here it is brother.

Churchill was called a war monger before the war and he was in a real sense a political “prophet”. He was actually despised in Parliament and regarded as something of a trouble maker and non entity so far as the aristocratic political elite were concerned. Yet when war came so did sobriety and Churchill the rejected man became a nation treasure. Many times Britain could and would have sought to deal with the National Socialist party of Hitler even at the beginning of the war itself.. In the Channel Islands where the German Army invaded it is possible to see British Policemen saluting and obeying German authority right in the midst of war. Not only this but The British establishment required it of their police officers. We even collaborated in preparing lists of Jews on the iIsland to be singled out for "special" treatment". In the end Churchill would have no such agreement and fully intended to run the course at all cost. After the war Churchill was once again rejected and was defeated in a political election in which he should have won hands down. Britain was not only financially broken but the people has suffered deprivation on such a scale that it was not possible to reward politically the man who had personally driven them to it. Yet before the war for several years Churchill warned of the inevitability of it all.

This is the political context. The spiritual one is that of Brother Jeff who is now as it were rejected, yet will prove sufficient to rise when the storm actually comes. Today is a day of preparation and not the time for war. Before the war comes it will be peace peace. This battle is not of flesh and blood it is the binding of principalities and powers in High places. In the end the war will be in heaven itself and it will never be on this earth until Christ Himself return and by the breath of His mouth He will destroy His enemies. Brother Jeff will know this reality already. As do many others. Today we do not preach peace peace, but neither do we preach war war. It is a day of preparation. This my understanding for what it is worth brother.

 2012/12/8 5:48









 Re: Peace, but at what price?

How wrong you are "bearmaster"...how wrong you are.

Quote:
Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.




"courage?".....how many here, have absolutely repudiated the roman institution, over and over again?

many, myself included. No, what Jeff and Sscott did was to make the most base accusations against a man who DARED quote a woman, who are one of the many people who LOVE and FOLLOW Jesus, yet are trapped in this dark institution...it takes NO COURAGE to sit behind a keyboard, and cut, eviscerate and devour, with words, men who have shown themselves worthy in Messiah.

and you write "I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel."

to do a cyber hit and run on a discussion forum is a "stand for the gospel"?...its no wonder you Gentile followers of Messiah Jesus in the western world have become so limp, how many "denominations" have been carved out of the Body of Christ?

and you ACTUALLY believe that Greg Gordon, any of the moderators, or myself GIVE COVERING to the roman institution, which is the accusation that both Jeff and Sscott made?

i can only speak for myself, but i'll tell you, that my people, the tribe of my flesh, the Jews have suffered ravages beyond reckoning at the hands of evil and vile men, not only those WITHIN the roman institution, who on their "crusades", would murder whole communities of Jews, while saying, "kill a Jew for Jesus, save your soul"....or "you killed our god, now we kill you"....and i'm sure, in their wicked minds, they thought THEY..were making a "stand for the gospel".

or what about Martin Luther, who started his ministry so fine, yet in his madness, finished up with the infamous screed, "On Jews and Their Lies"....you ever give that a read?....hitler and his demonic legions sure did, and i'm positive Luther when he penned THAT thought he was "making a stand for the gospel".

which is rather ironic, considering that the roman institution , speciffically the vatican, and papa, the man of perdition, was the first "body" to officially recognize the nazi state, while at the same time, holding up Luther's evil pen as a blueprint for what was to happen to the Jews....so the enemy KNOWS he can use either the roman institution or the innumerable "protestant" denominations to wreak utter hell on earth,with a little help from the global atheist organizations that have been formed.

and you lift up a man, who decided to accuse a brother, who posted up some writings from a nun, who while imperfect, as we all are, tended to the sick and disfigured, hungry of India, as a man who made a "stand for the gospel"?....and insert in your posting the question "Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?"

God help us, because confusion reigns, and reigns supreme. Do you have any idea where you are, the land you live in? the land and people who decided to open the gates of hell in March 2003,and become the 'new crusaders', a land that spends more on weapons than all the nations of the world combined, and to this day continues with this mayhem, Libya, Syria? Do you really think those "rebels" islamic "jihadists" are driving around in bright shiny Toyota pick-ups, with the newest anti-aircraft missilery, because they held a bake sale at the nearest mosque?

think.

and all the while, brooding silently in silo's and sub's, are the very tools God will use to bring down fire and judgement upon a worthless people.

in return i say, sleep well dear "Bear"...the Day is coming.

 2012/12/8 6:17
sermonindex
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 Re:

Quote:
Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost. Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?

Something I hope all will ponder. I respect Jeff and his stand for tbe gospel. For sure this man has shown more courage than what I have seen displayed here. Yet no one will listen to his warnings.

So sleep dear forum. But when you awake it may be too late and there will be a terrible price to pay.



Brother, I am discouraged that you would say such things. I do respect you and your burden for intercession also. As Neil said I am not defending the Roman system but desiring to defend the precious saints who have been in it and most were maligned and persecuted, ie the Fenelon and Madame Guyon's etc.

But towards brother Jeff my problem was the way that he attacked personally, privately and publically almost all at the same time. And the tone was not of the Spirit of Christ but his own flesh mostly. Galatians 5:22 says: Love, Gentleness, Meekness, Long-suffering, patience, self-control.

Sadly I did not sense or feel this from any of the interactions. I am a lover of truth and desire it but not at the expense of Christ-likeness. God raises up those who have spoken towards and against the Catholic system and I am thankful for those who God has. And we have posted their sermons and featured their messages.

But this forum is not a personal pulpit for a brother to flood the forums with warnings, I did not sense God nor love in any of it. I have had a personal almost 3 hour phone conversation where I sought peace with this brother and felt we obtained it. That was several weeks ago.

I do not feel that this site gives covering for any cults or any false churches brother.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/12/8 9:47Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

I wanted to post some of what is on my heart in light of the recent threads and all that happened in the forum yesterday. I am not attempting to take sides or defend one person over another but I wanted to share that yesterday in the mist of all the upheaval I wrote to Greg several times concerning the thread topic and mother Teresa. He was polite, caring, and understanding in his responses toward me even though he was dealing with all these other issues in the forum. He read what I had to say and respond with the things the LORD has placed on his heart. As far as the threads that went on and the SI member Jeff who posted repeatedly yesterday, on some points I agreed with him but I do believe he was acting in the flesh. I too can get very passionate about things but sometimes that passion can do more harm then it does good. Sometimes it puts another person on the defensive because they feel as if they are being attacked, I believe by Greg’s own words that was how he felt yesterday. As Christians we should take care to speak in such a way that we point each other to CHRIST not cause them to feel attacked. It is vital that we encourage and admonish one another daily so that we do not stumble into sin but the way we approach a brother or sister in CHRIST can and does make all the difference. I believe if the topic of mother Teresa had been discussed, prayed over and reasoned out in light of the LORD with out the name calling, and accusing that happened yesterday may have had a very different outcome...sadly it did not. As for my own heart and matter on this topic, I do think I understand Greg's initial reason and heart behind posting the thread as he did but perhaps a small disclaimer about not in anyway being in support of the RCC system would have been a possible way of showing those who are new to CHRIST as well as new to SI that while mother Teresa may have had some wonderful things that she shared in her love for JESUS she also was deceived in her practicing of the Roman Catholic Church system beliefs and that he was not endorsing those beliefs. For myself I too had an initial knee jerk reaction to the thread but spent some time in prayer over it...I will admit to still wanting to hear from the LORD more on this issue and confess I do not have all the answers but I do know that JESUS alone saves us through grace and I know that Greg by his words over the years believes the same truth. Anyone who has talked with him or visited the site should be able to say these same things from reading his own words.

Another mentioned this is not a church and yet we are all apart of the CHURCH in the body of CHRIST so at times how we respond to one another can have a blurry line. Greg and the other mods are running the site and as such they are in prayer and seeking GOD on how to conduct themselves as each one of us who visit the site should be as well. In the end I do agree this site is not a church although for many of us who do not have regular fellowship because of where we live or just the struggle of finding fellowship it does fill a void and we can become passionate about those we come here and meet with everyday, share and exchange the things the LORD places on our hearts with each day. This is perhaps why I reacted the way I did, I have grown and been blessed by the things that have been shared by many fellow members as well as the mods. As such when what seems to be an out of character post like perhaps the mother Teresa thread was some alarms about those we care about might have gone off but here is where it was vital to seek GOD, pray, and seek the intent of the persons heart instead of jump up and accuse or attack. I guess out of all of this I have learned a greater lesson and it had nothing to do with mother teresa but rather how should I treat another brother sister in CHRIST when there is some confusion due to our interaction over the internet...

Just my thoughts and heart on this. I will continue to be in prayer for those who mod this site and for those who come to glean from the many wonderful teachings shared here. I want to close by saying thank you publicly to Greg for taking of his time yesterday to respond to me, you have given me much to think on and pray about as I go forward and seek the LORD in all things.

God bless
maryjane

 2012/12/8 11:26Profile
elias7291
Member



Joined: 2011/12/7
Posts: 73
Los Angeles

 Re:

It is rather sad to think that many on here (myself included) are struggling in their walk with the Lord. And to see such foolishness in these forums lately causes others to think "well whats the point of Christianity? Shouldn't Christians be united in love?" Granted Ive known the Lord and ive seen these kinds of things happen, so therefore im not inclined to have such thoughts but other new believers see this and what shall they think? Still quite shameful though to see many of you all at your age still fighting over silly things. I look at you guys and it seems most of you all are over the age of 30 and have walked with the Lord for a long time and myself Im only 21 and as stated above, im struggling. But I understand that these conversations profit nothing and actually do much harm.

so a word to all: grow up. Act like your age both in your natural years and spiritual years.

Blessings.


_________________
Elias

 2012/12/8 12:22Profile









 Re: Peace, but at what price?

"Now there is peace in tbe forum. Jeff has departed. Now there is peace, sweet peace. But at what cost."

God bless you bearmaster, this has been happening hear slowly over the years, Jeff just forced it to the surface. 2005-6 I would send any believers I met here, now I wouldn't dare (speaking of the forum - the other resources are a spiritual gold mine). Sure there are some precious brethren here still and the Lord is moving, but their are many wolves, and much compromise even among the true saints here. There was a shift, if you will, that took place sometime, an underlying spirit. Maybe it started innocent in response to carnal divisions of cal/arm or pre trib/post trib or some other thing. It swung to the other side though and their is a lying spirit of false unity at work for sure that I would never expose a weak believer to.

" Will tbis forum pay a price for compromising the gospel?"

Look at another former ministry that was precious in God's site. Voice of the Martyrs. They refused to stop their subtle endorsing of catholicism and they recieved of her plagues just as the sowing and reaping principals of God demand. I say that with much sorrow. I say all of this with much sorrow, though surely some lying spirit will tell some key person that I am angry watchman and they will believe it because it is the easiest thing to believe. it has always been that way and those "in power" have always killed the Jeremiahs and the Steven's. The shift is in place.

For those who immediately listen to the religious spirits that make you want to yell "this man speaks against our forum and traditions" aka (he is attacking the forum). Think upon these things soberly in humility of heart first. It so sad to see Jeff demonized through those who were themselves believing lies of demons and thinking that they were doing God a favor while standing for love and truth. If the light in you is darkness how great is that darkness? For those who think Jeff was attacking the forum - I tell you those who killed Stephen also thought the same thing.

In Christ- Jim

 2012/12/8 12:28









 Re:

NEIL said "o do a cyber hit and run on a discussion forum is a "stand for the gospel"?...its no wonder you Gentile followers of Messiah Jesus in the western world have become so limp, how many "denominations" have been carved out of the Body of Christ?"


Jeff has been on this forum for like 8 years. Using deceptive debate tactics to slander people is not of Christ. In another thread you told frank something like "this is how it will happen, with the persecution coming from the inside" while talking about Jeff. If you were talking about inside your own heart that would be a true statement.

When you are ready come out of the woods and visit Detroit. I know a homeless man, an old nam vet, that after offering him some food in the name of Jesus sat me in a chair. He proceeded to tell me in detail how he was going to kill me in front of the other brethren if I mentioned Jesus again. He has a lifetime permit because of his special ops status to carry guns and the police wont even mess with him. The Lord gave me grace that day as I preached Christ anyway. He was just testing us to see if we were true believers. He let us give him one minute of Jesus talk after that whenever we ran across him and gave him food. Come on up and we'll go track him down and see how spiritual you are instead of sitting behind the keyboard falsely accusing Jeff who is out doing hard works on the streets for the kingdom.

May Jesus bless you Neil, those aren't empty words either. I love you and you are welcome anytime. Even if it so you can rebuke me in person dear brother. My old email address is gone but you can contact me easy enough.

In Christ -Jim



 2012/12/8 12:39





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