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I would also note that the passage about not taking another brother or sister to court is really an exhortation to all of us to live as believers... to live as Christ. If both parties are doing this then there is no reason why any matter between them can not be solved between them. If they are operating in love and forgiveness toward each other... there is no issue.


 2012/12/4 13:36

Joined: 2011/9/3
Posts: 76


Hi Krispy,

I tend to agree with your statements. In most people's comments, they are talking about 2 Christian parties involved. In the situation I presented, the person who was wronged is a believer, the person doing the harm is an unbeliever, as far as they can tell.

I also agree that if someone is physically attacking you or your family, you must defend yourself. I do have trouble with "turn the other cheek", which sounds like we have to be doormats.

I understand that sometimes God will direct someone not to sue, however, should it be that way in every situation? I still have some confusion about this.

 2012/12/4 16:24Profile


Brother Paul thank you for that Excellent reply. That is probably why I do not step out and do a lot of the things that I used to do as I see the folly in the sowing and reaping policy. It pays to wait, get instructions and proceed with the wisdom understanding or knowledge that God has equipped us than to walk in our own ways.

Sree said:

God does not need to speak to some one to stop committing adultery,

I have to disagree and I don't mean to disagree to be contrary only that just reading the law does not establish righteousness, for righteousness does not come by the law, it comes by faith.

I do not take away the fact that this is your conviction or belief, I respect that. For me, it's important that God speaks His Logo's to me, that He speaks it into my Spirit as to why I need to heed it. If I don't see the understanding, I will only be angry at Him as to why I can't do certain things. I must see why. When I see it or better yet, when I hear it and obedience follows out of that hearing, faith grows because I am not obeying it because it's written down on paper, but it's now written on the tables of my heart which causes me to automatically perform the law which was weak through the operation of the flesh. From the seat of our heart where God establishes His laws is the only way for His righteousness to become real through us, and that only comes by faith.

If I take that which I read and try to obey it, it's no longer faith, it's works. Trusting God to make the changes in us will cause us to automatically perform it without lifting one iota of our flesh, so that no flesh shall glory in His presence.

Whenever I read the law, I MUST ask Him to make the changes in me that I may obey it without thinking about it. That is why David said about hiding His word in His heart that He would not sin against Him. When it's there in the heart, without our prompting or anything that has to do with us, that we automatically love our neighbour, not because of what we read, but because it automatically flows out of us.

When we hear a believer say, "I can't steal because I am a Christian". His mind is not yet renewed, he still is under a works based understanding. When He comes to the end of himself and realizes that He is dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God, He will see that it's no longer him that liveth but Christ is living in Him, "HE doeth the works". My part is to trust Him that He is able to do exceedingly abundantly all that we may ask or think.

 2012/12/4 17:23

Joined: 2008/10/17
Posts: 113
Notts. England.


There are very good arguments for and against taking court action, and I fully agree we have to follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
We are called to be 'servants' not subserviant. I agree we must not be doormats to be walked over and constantly used and abused.
The situation the Apostle Paul speaks about to the Corinthians is regarding civil court actions, at a time when there were many cases and seem petty too.

Paul was not speaking against criminal court action. you notice his very different tone when he speaks about the man sleeping with his fathers wife and also check out scriptures regarding those involved in sexual sins! I did a compilation of scriptures to help a friend studying a christian perspective on safeguarding. Scriptures so terrifying you wouldn't want to be anywhere near these people!!

I feel we also have a duty to warn others against these cowboy workers, if no one speaks up and takes action these men continue in their evil ways and others get hurt too - with even serious consequences.

Some of you will know that after 20 years of silence I took police action against a Deacon in our church for abuse & rape. Ohh! I had a backlash of all the arguments and suffered the 'how dare I take a brother in Christ to court' Ohh how referring to him as a 'brother in Christ' deeply hurt! Yet I stood strong in the knowledge that God had spoken so strongly and clearly to me to take this course of action.
The verses of scriptures that God gave me over that period of time were absolutely amazing and miraculous. I spent many nights sobbing as I knew God was by my side!
He did miracle after miracle and even the church leadership saw God in it and came out in support.
The detective on my case was so moved she visited my parents (Yorrie & Eirian Richards) a couple of times, asking them to pray for her as she knew God had given her my case to speak to her!
Many other victims were named by the perpertator - the church members who were hostile towards my case left but God brought in many new families, because the church was seen to be doing the right thing and making a stand for justice. We've now outgrown our church and have had to move!

I know my situation is so different from this case mentioned, but I wanted to show that God instigated my case, pushing me to speak out, bringing justice in a miraculous way that even the police were amazed at how it all went! God even granted me such a Godly Christian Judge, his face literally shone so bright as if he'd spent quality time with God before pronouncing the sentencing, also our clerk of court was a lovely Christian who thanked me for having the courage to make a stand and told me she wished others too would have the courage to make a stand for justice.
If I was doing so wrong God would not have blessed in such a way and spoken so strongly and encouragingly and would not have done the miracles He did for me!

So yes, God does sometimes direct not to sue - but no, definately not in every situation. You just check out how many scriptures there are to do with Justice and how we should be the ones bringing justice too! You will be amazed!

Ceri Elaine

 2012/12/4 18:03Profile


Thanks for this testimony, Ceri, each situation is different and must one must be ready to obey God no matter what the cost.

 2012/12/4 21:03

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1731

 Re: Approved

If I take that which I read and try to obey it, it's no longer faith, it's works. Trusting God to make the changes in us will cause us to automatically perform it without lifting one iota of our flesh, so that no flesh shall glory in His presence.

I appreciate the way you have put your view. I agree with most part of your view. In fact my testimony is also similar to yours, God had to show me even obvious things to bring me back to him. I never said that God will not show obvious things to us, I just said the higher standard is to read it and just obey it.

To explain my point further I will use the illustration of comparing the works of Holy Spirit to a GPS that has auto run mode. So I hear the way of Christ from this GPS and keep driving in the direction the GPS directs me. Now when I take the wrong exit due to attractions in my flesh then the GPS prompts me recalculating the way and bringing me back to the way of Christ. I believe this is how you said God worked in you, and it is the same way he worked in me as well. We are naturally rebellious to God's ways so when we turn from it the Spirit prompts us the way of God and brings us back to it like this GPS. There were so many situations were I rebelled against even basic commands of God.

Now I see one more brother (2nd kind) who started with me in faith but after a year he is 100 miles ahead of me. Now the only obvious explanation is he never took the wrong exits and he completely submitted to the Spirit. Now how can I come to his level? It is by putting the GPS in auto run mode. I tell the Spirit that I have missed my exist so many times, I am unfit to drive my life anymore, you take the complete control of it. This is the standard I am talking about and it is the highest standard in which Jesus lived. There are believers who come to this standard from Day one and put their life in autorun mode. But there are people like me and you who had to struggle to come to this mode.

Then there are 3rd kind who keep hearing the way from GPS and try their best to follow the way but keep missing exits and never come to the stage of giving the spirit the direct control. It is such people who are still trying to keep the commands of law by Flesh and never come under the authority of spirit to live by faith. They are people who live by Romans 7 and never come to Romans 8 life. They are born again and that is why they keep coming back to the way.

Now there is a 4th Kind which I see common in today's christianity, they have already turned deaf to the GPS and are driving in their own way. But somehow deceive themselves saying they will reach the destination. They quote theologies and promises but ignore the conditions behind these promises. Total deception.


 2012/12/4 23:02Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1731

 Re: Taking someone to it biblical?

In short as an answer to the original question I would say-

If the person affected can stand before God and say that he has no bitterness against this contractor and the true intention of suing him is only to prevent others from getting affected and not to take any revenge on this contractor then he can go ahead with what he feels right. But I honestly believe in this case it is impossible to sue without any revenge in heart. That is just my understanding.


 2012/12/5 11:30Profile

Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada


I'm delighted to say that I believe this thread is going in the right direction :)
We are to be led by the Spirit in all directions. Those who do not have His Spirit are none of His.
Somehow, I am also not shocked that a few who have been on this site for many years, still resist and grieve the Spirit of God by saying that it is fine to have the right to sue one who defrauds you. God help you!
This is the spirit of the age - that we have certain rights and freedoms because we live in Canada or The States. The child of God lives by a higher "Law".
Or, if a christian probes my heart with the Word, I can call them an accuser of the brethren; but if an unbeliever defrauds me, I can sue him or her.... What non-sense! As Paul said, "why not suffer loss?" The spirit of this age is against such. The carnal mind cannot receive the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness to him.
Again, glad to come on here after a few days, and see the moderators bring in some light to this topic. It is however, "common sense".
I would add, to the original poster of this thread, being I have never met you personally, I would suggest to pray for the one who was defrauded, and if God so leads you to help financially the one who has suffered loss, to yield to God in this Way.


 2012/12/5 12:53Profile

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


hi , i have forgiven much. i think the firsrt check ought to come from yeshuasboy for a thousand and from all the brethren who agree with him athousand until this mans family is fully restored.put a little action in your beliefs and make them real.jimp

 2012/12/5 13:53Profile


i think the firsrt check ought to come from yeshuasboy for a thousand and from all the brethren who agree with him athousand until this mans family is fully restored.put a little action in your beliefs and make them real.jimp

jimp... you're making sense, bro.

Yeshuasboy... I have not seen where one person here has said "if they are an unbeliever then go ahead and sue 'em!" What I have seen people saying (myself included) is that when dealing with an unbeliever we need to seek the Holy Spirit, weigh each situation very carefully... and do as the Holy Spirit leads. Sometimes legal action is the only way to prevent a crook from taken advantage of others. Sometimes doing nothing opens your neighbor up to being ripped off.


 2012/12/5 15:18

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