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 Why is.......

Why is Israel more important than tbe persecuted church? Why do more prayers go up for Israel than for the persecuted believers suffering for Christ? I hear people wail over the attricities perpetrated against Israel. Whenever Jews are killed they are considered as martyrs on a same scale as those who suffer for Christ. Now Jews are being called estranged brothers and sisters. Yes, many weep for Israel. Who weep for the persecuted? I mean the true believers who lay down their lives for Christ.

It has been said that Israel is more important than the persecuted church. For they are apple of God's eye. Than can someone please tell me what are the persecuted believers of N. Korea, Eritrea, China, Nigeria, etc? Are they second rate in God's eyes?

Can somebody please explain to this blind nan why Israel is more important than the persecuted believers in the 1040 window. For surely the blind man is puzzled with a broken heart seeing tbe persecuted rejected. Rejected by the western church. I pray not rejected by God himself.

Again why is Israel more important than tbe persecuted church?

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/30 17:15
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re: Why is.......

Again why is Israel more important than tbe persecuted church?

Bearmaster.


_______________

Bear has someone on this site said this to you? You keep making threads like this one, I know you had another thread recently about Israel and I just wonder who is saying these things to you. I do not recall anyone here on SI saying anything like this? Are these things being said by those in your life around you?

OF course we pray for the persecuted church and of course we pray for those who are lost in Israel as well as other countries around the world. GOD calls us to pray for the lost, I believe the lost sheep of Israel still matter to HIM and I believe HE loves and cares for the persecuted church around the world. Don't you believe HE is big enough to hold both in HIS hands and care for them both?? I am asking because you seem to keep implying that it must be one or the other with your threads and it is confusing to me??

God bless
mj

 2012/11/30 18:31Profile









 Re: Why is.......

Quote:
It has been said that Israel is more important than the persecuted church. For they are apple of God's eye. Than can someone please tell me what are the persecuted believers of N. Korea, Eritrea, China, Nigeria, etc? Are they second rate in God's eyes? Blaine.




Dear brother bless you for your heart in seeking to comprehend the pain and suffering which the persecuted church knows daily. Bless you for having the courage to persist in making the reality of this available to others. Bless you for knowing that Israel is the apple of God' eye; His choice fruit.

When those who love the Lord suffer in persecution they are also blessed. When Israel suffers because of apostasy and because of the veil which the Living God has placed over their eyes (so that as a nation they cannot believe) they suffer and are despised continuously by all men. When the time of suffering and harvest of the gentiles is full so the suffering of Israel will be made full also. Then all the nations will comprehend what is the meaning of Israel. Men pray according to their understanding or else according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Still brother press on and keep the reminders coming. No one should be offended especially the one who has understood the thing which knowing, brings with it the pain of knowing.

 2012/12/1 4:33
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re: Why is.......

Bear,

You bring up a subject that at its heart is a perplexing one: is God's will hampered by lack of prayers? Or, is God manipulated by the volume of prayers prayed for any situation? Is God's success in bringing about his will dependent upon the prayers of his people?

Or, is prayer something else?

I ponder...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/12/1 16:44Profile









 Re: Why is.......

Bearmaster said:

Quote:
Why is Israel more important than tbe persecuted church?

Pray that the Lord reveal to you as to why that is. There is a deception within the Church body concerning this. There is no sense in me saying anything, people have to be convinced themselves by hearing from God themselves.

Armkelly said:
Quote:
because of the veil which the Living God has placed over their eyes (so that as a nation they cannot believe) they suffer and are despised continuously by all men.

This is a false statement.

Israel firstly is just a name. It does not represent all twelve tribes, if anything, it only represents one of the tribes, Judah. All the other tribes, their purity has been lost through gentile interbreeding, they were considered dogs by the Jews and had no dealings with them.

Secondly, if the veil was upon them, how did the first 5 thousand Jewish men get saved on the day of Pentecost, or the other 4 thousand Jewish men a few chapters over saved?

Thirdly, Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

If they didn't receive Him that isn't God's fault. Does God have to keep turning back to the Jew every time they reject Him?

The Promises that God made to Abraham have been confirmed by Jesus Christ. His death sacrifice has fulfilled the requirements of the law. God doesn't owe anything more to the Jewish people. They owe Him their lives by believing in Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

 2012/12/1 17:00
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1449


 Re:

Hi,
I dont think anyone is saying that Israel is more important than the Church persecuted or not.
The question should be are we praying in "Spirit and in Truth"?I can pray for the Church and Israel.
God has plans for the church which include the nation of Israel.Jews have to be born again like all other heavenly dwellers but the nation of Israel has been regathered for the time of the end,of this their is no doubt.
We have and always have had persecuted Christians and we will have persecuted Christians in the future.This fact is nothing new.God will reward them,their is no doubt.
This isnt a Church vs Israel match up.The Church is a group of people who are saved and we are going to heaven,Israel is a nation beloved of God of which he has a plan for like all other nations but Israel is beginning to take on a central role as the end comes as the bible says it would.Only if the people of Israel turn to him will they be saved by grace just like the rest of us,
Yours Staff

 2012/12/1 21:10Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2028


 Re: Why is.......


I am offering a link to an article that may help seekers of truth in regard to Israel.

May the Holy Spirit enlighten the eyes of our understanding as we read it(Ephesians 1:18).

http://98.131.162.170/tynbul/library/TynBull_1975_26_03_France_OTProphecyIsrael.pdf

May God bless your eyes! (Matthew 13:16)

 2012/12/1 23:13Profile









 Re:

Uh Savannah. I think this is mire of a paper than an srticle. But will try to work through it. Thanks for the link. In a nut shell would you give the readers digest version of tbe paper.

Bearmaster..

 2012/12/2 0:02
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2028


 Re: paper


Sorry to disappoint you Bearmaster.

I do hope you will work through it.

There's no quick fix to get truth.

So I write again, may the Holy Spirit enlighten our eyes of understanding. We know that He has promised to lead us and guide us into all truth.

"And leaving them, He went out of the city to Bethany, and lodged there. And returning early to the city, He hungered.
And seeing one fig tree by the road, He went up to it, and found nothing on it except leaves only. And He said to it, Let there be no more fruit from you forever. And the fig tree immediately withered." Matthew 21:17-19

"Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever (ou mēketi sou karpos genētai eis ton aiōna). Strictly speaking this is a prediction, not a prohibition or wish as in Mark 11:14 (optative phagoi). “On you no fruit shall ever grow again” (Weymouth). The double negative ou mē with the aorist subjunctive (or future indicative) is the strongest kind of negative prediction. It sometimes amounts to a prohibition like ou and the future indicative (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 926f.). The early figs start in spring before the leaves and develop after the leaves. The main fig crop was early autumn (Mark 11:14). There should have been figs on the tree with the crop of leaves. It was a vivid object lesson. Matthew does not distinguish between the two mornings as Mark does (Mark 11:13, Mark 11:20), but says “immediately” (parachrēma) twice (Matt. 21:19, Matt. 21:20). This word is really para to chrēma like our “on the spot” (Thayer). It occurs in the papyri in monetary transactions for immediate cash payment." - R.W.P.

"All the difficulty in the text may be easily removed by considering that the climate of Judea is widely different from that of Great Britain. The summer begins there in March, and the harvest at the passover, as all travelers into those countries testify; therefore, as our Lord met with this tree five days before the passover, it is evident,

1) That it was the time of ripe figs: and,
2) That it was not the time of gathering them, because this did not begin till the passover, and the transaction here mentioned took place five days before.

For farther satisfaction on this point, let us suppose:

I. That this tree was intended to point out the state of the Jewish people.

1. They made a profession of the true religion.
2. They considered themselves the peculiar people of God, and despised and reprobated all others.
3. They were only hypocrites, having nothing of religion but the profession - leaves, and no fruit.

II. That our Lord’s conduct towards this tree is to be considered as emblematical of the treatment and final perdition which was to come upon this hypocritical and ungodly nation.

1. It was a proper time for them to have borne fruit: Jesus had been preaching the doctrine of repentance and salvation among them for more than three years; the choicest influences of Heaven had descended upon them; and every thing was done in this vineyard that ought to be done, in order to make it fruitful.

2. The time was now at hand in which God would require fruit, good fruit; and, if it did not produce such, the tree should be hewn down by the Roman axe.

Therefore,

1. The tree is properly the Jewish nation.
2. Christ’s curse the sentence of destruction which had now gone out against it; and,
3. Its withering away, the final and total ruin of the Jewish state by the Romans.

His cursing the fig tree was not occasioned by any resentment at being disappointed at not finding fruit on it, but to point out unto his disciples the wrath which was coming upon a people who had now nearly filled up the measure of their iniquity.

A fruitless soul, that has had much cultivation bestowed on it, may expect to be dealt with as God did with this unrighteous nation. - Clarke

 2012/12/2 0:51Profile









 Re: Why is.......

Bearmaster, I am asking the same question.

"So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith."

“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, STRENGTHEN your brothers."

"Remember those in prison, as if you were there yourself. Remember also those being mistreated, as if you felt their pain in your own bodies."

"But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it."

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

"So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous."

 2012/12/2 0:55





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