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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

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 Re:

The homeless brother's story and some of the posts remind me of a Ravenhill quote:

"Anything that you love MORE than the Lord Jesus is an idol."

 2012/11/28 17:50
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 189
NSW Australia

 Re:

This seems to go beside that video. http://media.sermonindex.net/3/SID3523.mp3


_________________
Steve

 2012/11/28 21:03Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I feel we don't know the full story enough to judge whether or not this brother was in God's perfect will when he lost his wife and apartment and chose to live on the streets to minister instead of trying to get a job and a place to live.

What I will say is that I don't believe the Lord would have him to give away money like that being that the vast majority of that money will be spent on drugs or alcohol. Giving of food and clothing, yes, not cash. I grew up in the ghetto and still live in the ghetto and know first hand what most homeless people do with most of the money they get.

I would agree with some who have posted that balance is needed when you have a wife and/or children. While Scripture commands us to focus on God's kingdom primarily it also commands us to provide for our families.
"But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"-1Tim.5:8.

Another concern is the danger of the unbiblical social gospel agenda which says meeting physical needs should be a primary focus of the church. God's Word teaches that preaching the gospel should the be the primary focus, the great commission-Matt.28:18-20.

While the Lord fed the multitudes at times, it was always in the context of preaching the gospel of the kingdom to them. He cared more about their soul and where they would spend eternity.

Jesus did not just hang around with and preach to the poor but also to the middle classes and rich and affluential people of society. Even though He was "homeless" the evidence seems to indicate that He kept Himself clean and presentable to a certain extent since he was able to mix with all classes of society and attend many types of social gatherings such as weddings, synagogue meetings, etc.

And He preached a whole gospel of repentance and faith, not a watered down gospel which we hear a lot today. My hope is that this brother is indeed preaching a whole gospel to these homeless people, because that is what they need more than anything else.

Things are not always as they seem on the surface. As followers of Jesus we need much wisdom from above and through the Scriptures, being careful to heed the whole counsel of God.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/11/28 22:17Profile









 Re:

I did not like how he gave money to those who might use it for drugs either, but I was somehow able to overlook this and even the fact that his wife left him. The reason why is because I have beeen seeking and learning to yield to the reality of the cross in my life. As Art speaks of in the clip that SteveHale posted. There must be death to have life as Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

Art appeared to always be open to yielding and receiving the dying to self and carrying the cross so that Christ's life might be manifested. The homeless brother admitted to a life of suffering and I know of homeless men who get attacked all the time while living on the streets. One thing that might be helping him is that by giving to others he is also gaining friends who will help and protect him on the streets.

Listening to the Art Katz clip makes me think of the following message from Austin Sparks:

"The Lord Jesus said "I am the true Vine," and it was prophesied of Him that He would tread the winepress alone. The Cross was His winepress. How He was pressed in the Cross! He was crushed and broken, but out of that breaking has come the Life which you and I have, and which so many in all the nations have received. That is true, in a measure, of His Church. It was out of the breaking and crushing of the Church that the Life came to the world. And that is true of every member, every branch of the vine. If we are to fulfill this true, living ministry, it will only be through suffering, through the winepress, through pressure and through breaking. Paul said: "We were pressed out of measure, above strength" (2 Corinthians 1:8 – A.V.) – but what Life has come out of that man's pressure! We are not talking about preaching and Bible teaching, but about this great ministry of Christ giving His Life through us. It may be passed on to others through preaching, or through teaching, or through living, but if it is His Life it will come out of experiences of suffering. A preacher or a teacher who has never suffered will never minister Life."

Seeking Him,

Kenneth

"For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace."

 2012/11/28 22:44
notlongnow
Member



Joined: 2011/12/29
Posts: 31


 Re: Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

Praise God! This is fantastic!!!!

A man following the Lord, obeying His word, ministering to the rejected and poor.

And yet all some christians can do is find some stones to throw at him? Give me a break.

So what do we do with the verse;
"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none."
1 Corinthians 7:29

and this one;
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-38

Most likely he had an unbelieving wife who refused to follow the Lord with him. From what I read in the scriptures, our obedience to Christ comes before the whims of our spouses and if they leave, we are to let them leave.

I am all for the promotion of christian men loving their wives, but because there has been a great upsurge in preching on this in recent years, (in response to the high divorce rate, and men leaving their roles as providers and protectors of their families,) I do think it has been taken to the extreme at times. What I mean is yes, preaching this is right, but it has almost become like an idol in some circles, above a believers first allegiance to the Lord.

Here is a man who has laid his whole life down and taken up his cross exactly like it says in the scriptures, and all we can do is speculate that he didn't love his wife enough???

Sometimes I think when we see men actually living out Jesus commands we get uneasy, because we are unwilling to live like that, or we are still holding some part of our lives to ourselves. Sometimes I wonder if we are simply jealous.

Some quotes from the story I liked:

"He doesnt judge people. He gives money to everybody, he deosnt think 'oh this person might be ripping me off'."
Yes!! I wholeheartedly agree. Just like Jesus said. This man doesn't examine the motives of everyone who comes to him in need. He gives to everyone who asks and he doesn't expect a return on his 'investment'.

"It was difficult to convince Pannizzo to do an interview because he doesn't want what he is doing to be glorified." Sounds like a real disciple of Jesus to me, unlike most of the show ponies around.

This guy gives me hope that there are still real disciples of Christ out there willing to lose their lives to save it, and not caring about what 'Church' people think. No wonder the Lord has him out on the streets loving his neighbour and not under the umbrella of some man made 'ministry'.

By the way. I don't see too many crowds of homeless people standing round to hear one man read Jesus words to them. Maybe thats because most of the other people doing that are preaching but not meeting their physical needs. I watched a youtube video of some street preachers have a homeless woman come up and say they needed a place to stay and all they did was stand there and PRAY God would find a place for them. Are they serious?? Go and practice what you preach from the bible and see how many people you have willingly wanting to hear what you say then!!

"If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
James 2:15-17

"Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" James 2:5

Amen!





 2012/11/29 6:27Profile









 Re:

"We have to go to where we run out, and when we run out we get Him" (Jackie Pullinger).

Amen Notlongnow, my sentiments exactly and I even quoted some of the same verses you did. I am so hungry for reality and I believe others want reality too. Jesus promised to give us life-eternal life, and to know Him is eternal life. We must minister Him to others and to one another. I remember a statement from Jackie Pullinger about how the poor people living in the Walled City in Hong Kong did not understand when she said "Jesus Loves You," instead she had to show them the love of Jesus.

Paul said he counted all loss to know Christ and to be found in Him, not having a righteousness of his own derived from the law. This is from an apostle who understood that when he was weak Christ was strong in him. Paul boasted in his weakness, boasted in the cross, boasted in sufferings, infirmities, and distresses. Most importantly Paul boasted IN the Lord! Truly abiding in the Christ and Christ in Paul. It is not I, but CHRIST in me who lives.

OHHHHHHHHH, dear Father God have mercy on us and break us, bring us to the end of ourselves so that we might be the Christ on the earth.

We want to have control because as James says: "For jealousy and selfishness are not God's kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic." As Paul said: those in the flesh CANNOT please God and they are hostile to Him. God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Please note all these verses are written to Christians.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit means death to selfish control and then the Spirit of life in Christ controlling you. What does Baptism mean? Does it not represent death? The Holy Spirit is a person, not some power that you get a hold of to control and use as you will. The Holy Spirit has the power, but He is a Person who controls and uses you for the glory and purposes of God.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

"The one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked" (1 John 2:6).

Love in Christ name,

Kenneth Martin

 2012/11/29 11:49









 Re: Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

This is it. This is what Jesus was talking about in the gospels.

Whoever desires to save your life will lose it and whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.

I tried to do a bit of what this guy did and you need to understand the pain/suffering/heartache this will cause but I do have to wonder if you have not tried anything like this, are you really a christian? If you don't face any persecution or suffering, how can you call yourself a christian especially in the world we live in.

This guy is the only guy, I can say 100% really does what the bible says.

All of us should be convicted, most of us should be ashamed.

What have you given up for the sake of Christ?

I tried and I could not do what he did.

 2012/12/27 16:35









 Re: Homeless Preacher that Risks his Life Every Day for Jesus

Quote:
A man following the Lord, obeying His word, ministering to the rejected and poor.

And yet all some christians can do is find some stones to throw at him? Give me a break.

So what do we do with the verse; 
"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none."
1 Corinthians 7:29

 and this one; 
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-38

 Most likely he had an unbelieving wife who refused to follow the Lord with him. From what I read in the scriptures, our obedience to Christ comes before the whims of our spouses and if they leave, we are to let them leave.

I am all for the promotion of christian men loving their wives, but because there has been a great upsurge in preaching on this in recent years, (in response to the high divorce rate, and men leaving their roles as providers and protectors of their families,) I do think it has been taken to the extreme at times. What I mean is yes, preaching this is right, but it has almost become like an idol in some circles, above a believers first allegiance to the Lord.

Here is a man who has laid his whole life down and taken up his cross exactly like it says in the scriptures, and all we can do is speculate that he didn't love his wife enough???

 Sometimes I think when we see men actually living out Jesus commands we get uneasy, because we are unwilling to live like that, or we are still holding some part of our lives to ourselves. Sometimes I wonder if we are simply jealous. notlongnow.



Just to put things into context brother the same Paul who said “they that have wives live as though they had none” also said “know you not that he who loves his wife loves himself”. I think Paul was simply pointing out that it is possible to love your wife for selfish reasons and not as a matter of obedience to the commandment “love your wife”.

The passage from Matthew concerning bringing a sword, is a sword on the earth and not a sword on the family. The division is one of believing and not one to make a division wilfully by reason of estrangement. Taking a cross in this passage has to do with making a right response to Christ calling in your life despite your father, mother sister and brother. No mention of a wife. The family being spoken of is your fathers family and not your own family.

Greg didn’t throw any stones. He simply pointed out that the attitude or lack of response to the fact of loosing his wife by reason of his ministry to the homeless was inconsistent with his responsibility to his wife. Or perhaps he didn’t demonstrate any sense of loss and therefore this raised a question. Or perhaps Greg knows that if you have a contract of marriage you are bound to it before God and men.

If you have a wife then live as a man who has a wife in Christ and not as a wife in the flesh. The flesh demands one kind of thing and has reasonable expectations in marriage. Christ demands another kind of thing in that He expects married men to love their wives, not as themselves, but as Christ loves the church. The demands of Christ necessitate a more mature reflection on this business of being married.

To accept the loss of your wife without regret, understanding that the way you treat your wife is a measure of your obedience to Christ, is a contradiction. In writing this I would share with you that having been homeless and hungry as a young man it is easy to feel compassion for those who are homeless themselves. I have taken homeless men off the street and given them the comfort of a bed as well as food and my wife has not resisted it. When we were first married my wife went with me to the homeless shelter to minister to the homeless and she washed their feet even though she hated the idea of it. I washed and cut their hair. I also washed their feet because to a homeless person, feet are just about as important as you can get. Whilst holding their feet it was pure joy to share the gospel knowing that they had to wrestle with their minds seeing the service being shown to them and at the same time trying to work out the meaning of it in the presentation of Christ. Only the Lord knows what good came of it. But the doing of it isn’t so difficult if you have a reason to understand it.

 2012/12/30 8:25









 Re:

armkelly,

That's all true unless God told him to forsake all and follow him.

It all depends on what happened. And we don't have all the facts.

Look at what happened to Job. Because of his obedience to God, it caused great strain on Job's relationship with his wife. So much so that she said "curse God and die". What if the preacherman's wife didn't want to obey God any longer and chose to leave and disobey God. The preacherman is not an idiot. He was a doctorate student at Berkeley. Do you really think he desired for the woman and child he loved to depart from him? That probably crushed him. He probably had to choose forsaking all to follow Christ. When push comes to shove that commandment will take priority over taking care of your wife.

First commandment is to love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, isn't it? Not to love your wife. Paul also said that if you are able, you should be single.

Did you know that God can command you to sacrifice your own kid? Doesn't that sound absolutely insane? But that situation occurred in the one of the most popular bible stories of all time. Do you think Abraham wanted to kill his own son? Absolutely not, but out of obedience to God, he had to forsake all and was willing to kill his own Son out of his love for God. God can be very extreme.


Look at what it says in Matthew 10:34-39

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

I don't like these commandments. Actually I hate them. I think they are too extreme. I wish God was more easy going but that's what the bible says.

Also look at David Livingstone's life. He was a missionary and God called Him to Africa. He loved his wife and family but because God called him to be missionary, he suffered greatly. He lost his whole family and his wife by obeying God's call. He could've just stayed in his home country and taken care of his family. But he had to follow the call and be willing to forsake all to follow and obey God.

Here is John Piper's "You will Suffer". In this video, John talks about losing everything when you follow God. At times, even your family.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--JiiuJNvt4


I hate this aspect of following God. I weep almost everyday cause of the suffering but that's what the bible says. I don't make the rules.

I also worry about the other side of the spectrum. The group of people that make raising a family an idol over loving God. My sister has a family with kids now. Ever since she has a family of her own, that family became an idol. All her actions are consumed with taking care of the family. She is so consumed by it that she denies it is the end times. She thinks the economy will bounce right back and everything will be normal again. She is also a pastor and has been a pastor for almost a decade.

In conclusion, we don't know why his wife left, so we can't make a conclusion. But after watching the video and listening to his audio, this guy seems to be legitimate.

Please download his mp3 and take a listen.

http://cdn.sfgate.com/blogs/sounds/sfgate/chroncast/2008/05/23/ChronRadio-Preacherman-20080524.mp3

 2012/12/30 8:30









 Re:

Quote:
Do you really think he desired for the woman and child he loved to depart from him? He probably had to choose forsaking all to follow Christ. When push comes to shove that commandment will take priority of taking care of your wife. codek



The passage you quoted does indeed speak about loving a son or a daughter and so it does include a man’s own household as well as his father’s household. What it does not say is that a man should love the Lord more than his wife. The issue in this passage is not an issue of life as far as eternity goes, though at its root the issue is an issue of the effect of the gospel of Christ. So that a son may believe and a father may not etc,. The taking of the cross is the question which gives rise to being counted worthy. If you can say that you are worthy of the Lord’s death then so be it. But I cannot say it. But if you want to be worthy of the kingdom, that is Christ when He comes in His kingdom, then that is something to be counted worthy off.

The passage is separated in meaning and its separation is the house of your father and your own house. The one is a matter of life and may bring division because if the son believes and the father does not therein lies the division of the sword of the word. The other is not believing, since when can believing unto life be reckoned as bearing a cross? This second part has to do with your own household and it excludes your wife. It is a matter of being counted worthy and has nothing to do with eternal life. We don’t receive eternal life by bearing our cross. We receive eternal life by believing by faith a free gift. Being counted worthy of Christ at His coming kingdom on the other hand is a being counted worthy to reign with Christ in His kingdom.

If not then every man is free to claim that “God Himself has told me to put my wife aside because she doesn’t agree with God’ calling in my life”. We are required to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, not to hide behind our calling no matter how difficult a thing it may seem to be. I have no idea whether this man regrets his loss. No doubt he knows. But if he consents to the making of a video for public viewing and includes a failure to explain himself he will be found to have caused others to stumble because they will take their lead from him seeing as how zealous he is. This is all in this thread read it again if you don’t believe me.

The gospel is a sword which divides a father from a son and a mother from her daughter in law etc. But the man and his wife are one flesh. They cannot be divided even as Christ cannot be divided from His body the church. Only bearing the cross can make for a separation in that it is the loss of your own rights and pleasures for the sake of Christ. So in this a man cannot continue to love his wife simply because he loves her as he loves himself, but must love his wife as Christ loves His body. This is why the scripture tells us that even if just one parent is a believer the children are righteous.

Remaining single and choosing not to marry is one thing. To abandon your wife against her wishes is complete nonsense. I deny that God would ever ask anyone to serve Him to the cost of his own wife and children. The decision we took when we married was a decision which we have to live with for the rest of our lives and if we could believe that then perhaps we would find a way to serve God and not cause our wives and children to stumble in the process.

 2012/12/30 9:23





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