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 My Conclusions

Saints as I have read your insightful post regarding the role of Israel and the church. I must come back to one guiding conckusion. The gospel is the central theme in all of scripture. Thus any interpretation of scripture must be related to tbe person and work of esus Christ on the cross. Any other way to view scripture apart from the centrality if Christ is to distort it to one's destruction.

Thus I conclude that Jesus Christ is the center of redemptive history and not Israel. I conclue that God is preparing a bride for his Son that consis of Jew and Gentle. Not tbe nation if Israel. I conclude that God us fulfilling spiritual promises to the nation of Israel and not literal land promises. I conclude that tbe Jews need the gospel to be saved just as the Gentiles do. I conclude that tbe beluever is under the New Covenant and nit tbe Old Covenant. I conclude that the NewCovenant promises abrogate tbe Old Covenant promises.

I know many will take issue with me on these positions. But for me to conclude otherwise would be to go against the word of truth as I understand it.

But again tbe discussions gave been good and gave sharpened ny faith jn this area. Much blessing and peace be upon tbe body of Jesus.

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/24 18:41
timg
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Joined: 2008/8/23
Posts: 100


 Re: My Conckusions

I agree entirely with everything you said. The discussions have been good for me to.

Have to admit that I was a little curious about your "Conckusions" :)

God bless you brother.
Tim

 2012/11/24 18:53Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: 'The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
" 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.' Revelation 2:8-11 (ESV)


It seems pretty clear that in Christ, one is either a "Jew" or he is ungodly.

That should not surprise anyone because it was God's promise to Abraham, i.e., the Church is neither made up of Jew or Gentile but, both. The Church is of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is of the seed of Abraham.

 2012/11/25 7:52Profile
White_Stone
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
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 Re:

Croref,

Thank you for this post, it has cleared up that portion of Scripture for my husband and me - (those who say that they are Jews and are not)

Seems we would be better off praying for 'the seed of Abraham.' No need to specify particular Countries.

regards,
ws


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Janice

 2012/11/25 11:45Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: My Conclusions

Bearmaster,

Quote:

I know many will take issue with me on these positions...



Really? I have read through the threads on this subject (and, personally, I think that it would have been better to leave the discussion to ONE thread and not multiple threads), but I haven't seen anyone argue against the "conclusions" that you presented.

Perhaps you misunderstood the points that others have made regarding the status of physical Jews? Unless I missed something (and I read through the posts in all of the recent threads on the issue), no one is arguing against the things that you concluded. Physical Jews need Christ just as much as Gentiles. This should be clear by the very fact that the early Church -- including Paul, Peter, John, etc... -- evangelized Jews.

The point of contention, it seems (even if it might go unsaid), is whether or not there physical Jews have lost their status as "God's chosen people."

The point that some have raised is that Paul made a distinction between physical Jews and Gentiles -- even if our spiritual needs are the same. Obviously, Jews need Jesus as much as everyone else. Yet, in Christ, there are no "Jews" or "Gentiles" (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11) because those who are in Christ have been grafted into the vine (Romans 11:17). Yet, in a physical sense of the original Covenant, there is still a distinction in terms of that Covenant. Thankfully, Israel will be saved when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete (Romans 11:25-26).

So, I can say that the points that you raised in this new thread aren't in doubt. The Gospel is the central theme in Scripture. Scriptural interpretation (especially in regard to salvation) is undeniably related to the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. There is no way to the Father but by the Son. The Bride of Christ is not made up of a particular earthly ethnicity, but of those who have turned to Christ. Believers have a New Covenant in His blood. I believe that Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant with His blood which is the basis for the New Covenant that He made with those who place their faith in Him.

So, no, I don't think that anyone would argue with what you wrote here. In fact, I don't think that anyone here at SermonIndex has argued against these things at all. However, I do believe that Paul -- an Apostle of the New Covenant -- clearly made a distinction between the physical Jews and Gentiles in his letter to the Romans and used Old Covenant scriptures to speak of such things. What is the basis for the physical distinction in regard to the Old Covenant? When Paul spoke of physical Jews who do not know Christ, he reminded us that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" (Romans 11:28-29).

Calvinists will often cite that last passage and apply it in terms of their views of salvation. In context, I feel that it is speaking of the lasting Old Covenant in regard to Jews who have not come to Christ.

Ultimately, I think that we are all on the same page in terms of the fact that no one can come to the Father except through the Son. It doesn't come through birthright. It doesn't come through vain attempts to fulfill Mosaic law. It comes through Christ -- and Christ alone. That it the basis of the Gospel -- the Good News. This news is "good" regardless of whether you are a Jew or Gentile.


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Christopher

 2012/11/25 16:34Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by White_Stone on 2012/11/25 8:45:51

Thank you for this post, it has cleared up that portion of Scripture for my husband and me - (those who say that they are Jews and are not)

Seems we would be better off praying for 'the seed of Abraham.' No need to specify particular Countries.






You're Welcome!. . . )


 2012/11/25 19:20Profile





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