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Keylla
Member



Joined: 2012/6/17
Posts: 26
Brazil

 Question about the plans of God

God has good plans for us. But why does he allow the only son of a true christian (a pastor) to be born with down´s syndrome? Is it a good plan of someone´s fault?

PS: This child was very expected. The mom could not have children, and had a small surgery, but when he was born she was devasted.


_________________
Keylla Amaral

 2012/11/22 12:22Profile
dvndsn
Member



Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 86
Kentucky

 Re: Question about the plans of God

Mighty surprising to me 31 people have read this and said nothing. My little sister has Cerebral Palsy. A wonderful gift from Him most assuredly. When Jesus healed the blind man in John 9 his disciples asked if it was his sin or his parents sin that he was born so. Christ answers with "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him." ESV

A beautiful answer indeed, and it rings true today for sure. In God's mysterious and wise providence, He allows His people to go through hardship so they can experience His saving power at work in their life. He does good all the time whether we attest to it or not. My sister is a wonderful gift from the Father, as is anyone else.

 2012/11/22 15:49Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: Question about the plans of God

The son with Down syndrome has better ministry than most of us can have. Everyone who looks at him will give praise to god that they were not born like him. They will thank God for the brain development they had in the womb. This son truly humbles people by his existence. What a great ministry this is.


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Sreeram

 2012/11/22 17:03Profile









 Re: Question about the plans of God

Apollos (Frank) gave an wonderful testimony about his son whom he was devastated as well, but he had an expectant outcome and I hope that he comes on here and reads this so he can share with you his testimony or send you the link to his blog. You and those that you share it with, will be blessed.

 2012/11/22 18:24
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Question about the plans of God

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"But why does he allow the only son of a true christian (a pastor) to be born with down´s syndrome? Is it a good plan of someone´s fault?"
______________________________________________________________

This question has baffled people throughout all ages. Job had to deal with it as well. Then his friends had the audacity to inform him that it was because of a spiritual problem he had. I suggest you study Job...Those counselors were very wordy, given to circular reasonings, kept on talking long after they were done - maybe they liked to hear themselves talk? :-/ Then notice what God's response was to these long winded fellows...(Can't you tell I weary of people who keep talking long after they made their point?)

In any case - here is my testimony. Before we learned that Regina was afflicted with glioblastoma, the Holy Spirit led me to carefully read Job. I got the point early on - read only about half way until I quit and read the last two chapters. A few months later we learned she had brain cancer and might die - eventually. (The survival rate for a glioblastoma was about 5% back then.) Anyhow, God used Job to prepare me for what was ahead. Is He not wonderful?

God allows us to be jolted out of our comfort zone to the point where one can only trust him for your sanity.

God bless.

(BTW, Regina went to be with the LORD, eventually. You see, there are a lot worse things that can and do happen to a person then dying. God was with me...just as He was in charge of Regina's health, so He was in charge of my comfort and it was second to none.)


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/11/22 19:03Profile
Keylla
Member



Joined: 2012/6/17
Posts: 26
Brazil

 Re:

Amem! Thank you all. We must trust on the Lord.


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Keylla Amaral

 2012/11/23 18:21Profile
Keylla
Member



Joined: 2012/6/17
Posts: 26
Brazil

 Re:

Approved, i would appreciate that.


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Keylla Amaral

 2012/11/24 5:08Profile
Keylla
Member



Joined: 2012/6/17
Posts: 26
Brazil

 Re:

Once while talking about that matter to another sister she kind of blamed the mon (pastor,s wife) saying she should not trying to give God a help or even going against His will doing the surgery. Maybe His will was she should not have children.
So i thougt maybe, if she would have accepted her fate she would not have that son whith downs syndrome...did this happen because she did not trust on God to open her womb but went to that surgery without the approval from God?


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Keylla Amaral

 2012/11/24 5:31Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Question about the plans of God

Keylla:

When the blind man was brought to Jesus, the question was asked, "Who sinned that caused this man to be born blind? The parents? This man?" Jesus answer was that this was not the result of anyone's sin. Then Jesus demonstrated the will of God in the situation and healed the man.

I would like to address your questions if I may. I pray you bear with me, as a complex question may have an involved answer.

First, we need to establish from where sickness, disease, deformity, and even genetic corruption originate. It is someone's fault in a sense. These things are a result of the corruption that entered the human race because of Adam's sin. (We could say it was Adam's fault, but then we must realize that we too are flesh and most likely would have failed in the same way Adam did.) They are not from God, but rather are from the enemy and are a result of sin in the human race. Sickness can be thought of as death in progress.

Second, we need to realize that being a Christian does not remove us from the reality of being human and being subject to the corruption that is in the flesh due to sin. This does not mean that we are powerless to do anything about it, as I will mention later, but it does not automatically exempt us from these things.

Thirdly, I think we sometimes have a somewhat skewed perspective on the sovereignty of God. Before anyone automatically throws stones at me, let me explain.

When Jesus atoned for our sins, He also atoned for our healing as well. We can see this very plainly in Isaiah 53. Not only is there a very plain statement of His atoning for our transgressions, but verse 4 states that He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. The meaning of this is made plain not only by a study of the Hebrew words, but also by Matthew in 8:176 when he refers to these things as sicknesses and infirmities. Not once in the New Testament did Jesus refuse to heal a sickness. Yet, not all people are healed. We have a clear statement that Jesus provided healing by His broken body, yet not all people are healed.

But we have a parallel in the realm of salvation. It is explicitly stated in the New Testament that it is not God's will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Yet a vast majority of all mankind will not be saved and will perish. God's explicitly stated will is not coming to pass. The reason for this is because salvation is not automatic. It is dependent upon man's response to the gift of grace that has been offered.

You see, we are sometimes taught that God controls every circumstance that happens in our lives, and that all events that happen to us must pass through His approval. Yet this is clearly not the case with our salvation. Actually, if you followed this line of reasoning to its logical end, you would have to say that a violent rapist who violated a wonderful Christian lady would have been allowed by God to do so, and that God had ordained that this happen.

God is absolutely sovereign, but we must not arbitrarily define the term sovereign. It does not mean that God controls every circumstance of life. The word simply means autonomous or not under the control of anyone else. A monarch is a sovereign. He does not bow to the rules of anyone else, but rather sets the rules. Yet only a despot fails also limit himself to the rules he has established. So with God. He has set limits on His own actions by His nature, and by His Word, which is immutable. If He said, "control of this or that has been given to man", then He will not renig on that statement and take control of that area. This is why God did not step in and stop Satan from tempting Adam and Eve in the Garden. He had given them the power of choice in the matter and He would have violated His own word and character to have taken that authority in that area back under His control. This is also, by the way, why Jesus had to come as a man.

When God created man, He gave man some dominion and authority, as well as the ability to choose between right and wrong. God allowed man to make that choice. God, through Jesus Christ, has now provided the way that man can once again be in right relationship with God. But man must choose this and accept it by faith. For by grace are you saved, through faith... Anything that we receive from God will be received because we respond positively to that which God is already providing for us. So it is with physical healing. We receive that which has been provided already by our positive response of faith.

God has ultimate plans that will absolutely be carried out. But it is up to us to cooperate with God in obedience in order to see them carried out through us. If we disobey, God will find someone else that will obey. So we have the ability to obey, or to disobey. Although God's perfect will would be that we obey.

I hope you can see what I am trying to say. I don't believe God ordained Down's syndrome. It is a genetic corruption that is in the human race due to the effects of sin. But, we can put faith in God and believe Him for healing.

In the meantime, we should pray for the pastor and his wife. Support them emotionally, spiritually, and financially where they need it. Be an encouragement to them. Minister to them, and allow God to use you to help build their faith. They need it.



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Travis

 2012/11/24 16:21Profile









 Re:

HI Keylla,

My name is Frank ( appolus) and I have a son with Down Syndrome who is now 19. I would just like to address some of the misconsceptions that typically turn up, even on this thread. First of all, Down Syndrome children do not have an " affliction,' and secondly, they are not some cruel punishment from God. What they do have is an extra chromoszone. Now, this indeed makes them unique and different, a special breed of child if you like. Here is the major differences I see between those with an extra chromozone. 1. They love unconditionally. 2 They are color blind, as in no black or white or brown or yellow people, just people. 3. They do not consider a persons age, they will not talk down to a 90 year old.4. They are non-violent.5 When introduced to the notion of God they freely accept and have a unique kind of faith. 6. Their ability to forgive is beyond our understanding. And these are just some of the differences that I have experienced with Daniel.

I think Approved was talking about this piece I wrote below..........

THE DAY I MET AN ANGEL

Angels Unawares?

The day started out with expectation. This would be the day for our final scan. My wife was three weeks away from her due date and she was definitely ready to give birth.

We joked as we drove to the hospital about the scan. Angie had not wanted to know the sex of our child, and I , the one who always tried to find Christmas presents early, wanted to confirm what my heart knew, that it was a girl.

I had become a Christian two years previous and life was good. We did not have much money, but our lives were totally different. Angie and I had met when we were 14. We both came from very violent and dysfunctional backgrounds. We sought comfort in each other and were very much in love.

Angie fell pregnant when she was 16. We married shortly after our 17th birthdays. Four months later Stephen was born 3 months premature, the cord had got wrapped around his neck and the Drs. estimated that he had went at least 6 minutes without oxygen. He lived for a day, and then, following the Doctors advice, we turned the machine of and he died shortly after that.

Our second son was born about a year and a half later. Christopher was a beautiful child, very happy and contented. When he was two, while the baby-sitter was watching him, a full kettle of boiling water was dropped on him. He received 3rd degree burns over 60% of his body. Christopher survived, but had to suffer horrendous treatments of salt baths and skin grafts. He also wore a special skin tight vest for the next two years.

When I was 26, I came to Christ. I left years of destructive behavior behind, including drugs and alcoholism. Most importantly, I left a stony heart behind. The Lord had given me a heart of flesh. For the first time in my life, I could take my son in my arms and tell him I loved him, so simple to so many, so beyond what I had been previously capable of.

Now two years later, everything was falling into place. I was a young, excited Christian and everything was falling into place. The Lord was giving me the desires of my heart and that is why I knew that this was the little girl I had always longed for.

As the lady scanned, she was not her usual self and seemed unusually preoccupied with what she was doing. Our previous visits with the same lady had always been light hearted and she knew how Angie and I differed on knowing the sex of the baby. I even tried bribing her, but to no avail:)

Five times she scanned the baby and measured. She asked us if we would mind waiting for five minutes because she had to speak to the Doctor. She assured us that there was nothing to worry about.I immediately started worrying.

We were ushered over to the Doctor, a very pleasant and kind lady. She said that there seemed to be a problem with the fluid and it was her best opinion that we should go ahead and deliver the baby that day. We were scheduled for a section, which would be Angies third and last and also a tubal.

We rushed home to get some things for Angie. We didn’t really speak much. An icy chill was rising up in me, starting at my toes and heading towards my heart. I prayed like crazy.Two hours later we were in surgery and I held Angies hand while sitting at the safe end, behind the sheet.

Another defining moment in our lives had arrived. I looked up just in time to catch a look that the Doctor gave the nurse. This look was frozen in time.I knew something was not right. The Doctor very gently asked me to come to the back of the room. There she showed me my son. I had been wrong. She then very quietly and with a lot of compassion told me that my son had all the classic signs of Down Syndrome.

I had hit an emotional brick wall that almost took my legs away from me. It was hard for me to think. “Do you still want the Tubal ?” I heard the Doctor say in the mist.

An hour later the poor Doctor came back and told me that my son was seriously ill and had to be rushed to the nearest Children’s hospital. I was really too numb to take this all in. I felt no connection to this child, no compassion, I was truly numb, my heart frozen in time. I held my wives hand and told her I would have to leave her and go to the other hospital.

I spent the night in intensive care with this child, still feeling nothing. How could the Lord let such a thing happen? I had been betrayed by the One I trusted more than life itself. It was hard for me to even think that thought, but it was there and trying to push itself to the front of my mind.

I got home about 7.00 Saturday morning, exhausted. As I took my wallet and loose change out of my pants I came across a piece of paper. It was a long list of telephone numbers to call about the “happy event.” I crumpled that paper in my hand and threw it across the room. I crawled into bed, pulled the covers over my head, and was not sure I cared if I woke up again.

Of course I did wake up, it was not a bad dream, it was all too real. The thing about a crisis in our lives is that the world keeps turning. Perhaps if it stopped then it would make more sense. Yet as I looked out of my window, there they were, the world, people, going about their business, didn’t they realize that the world has stopped spinning, why was I the only one falling?

I cried out to God and told Him that if He did not help me I was lost. In my Spirit I felt sure He would speak to me the following day at Church during worship which I loved. I arrived at Church right on time, so as not to talk to anyone.

The worship time started and the first song that was sung was “God will make a way, where there seems to be no way.” This was a promising start. Then the music stopped, which was unusual as we normally worship for at least 20 minutes if not more.

Then I realized what was going on. Twice a year they would have baby dedications. I could not believe the irony of this. Of all mornings, I would now have to sit and watch perfect little babies being dedicated to the sounds of Ooohs and ahhs from the congregation and loving family members. I thought, how cruel Lord, this was rubbing salt in my wounds. The worship started soon after and the tears were just rolling down my face.

The person next to me nudged me and handed me a note and pointed to a young woman of about 19 or 20 at the end of the row. The note read “I could not help but notice that you were crying, is there anything I can pray with you about.” I beckoned her over.

She asked what was wrong. I told her my son had just been born and he had Down Syndrome. She looked at me with confusion, the same look you get when you give a kid the right change at McDonalds.

I was momentarily irked by this kid, how was I suppose to explain Down Syndrome? I had no real idea what it was myself. In this one second as I was looking into her confused face I was suddenly looking into the face of the Lord, He also had the same confused look. He spoke into my Spirit and said to me “Frank, I do not know what Down Syndrome is either, all I know is that I have given you a perfect gift from the treasures of heaven.”

My icy heart melted in the presence of the Lord.Warm waters of love came flooding into my heart.The cry of my heart had been (Psalm 69)”Deliver me out of the mire, and let me not sink; let me be delivered from those who hate me, and out of the deep waters.

Do not let the flood of waters overflow me, nor let the deep swallow me up, and let not the pit shut its mouth on me.Hear me, O Jehovah, for Your loving-kindness is good; turn to me according to the multitude of Your tender mercies. And hide not Your face from Your servant; for I am in trouble; hear me quickly.

The irony is, the Lord used a flood to deliver me. He flooded my soul with love and understanding. And in that flood the enemy was drowned and I was delivered

Daniel, our son, has been through many trials and surgeries, yet nothing diminishes his light. Daniel is the light of our lives. The joy and the peace that he has brought to our house cannot be measured. He touches lives everywhere he goes and at the age on 19 continues to be a mighty source of blessing to all who come in contact with him.

I never saw that young girl again. I have often wondered if I had truly entertained an “Angel unawares.”

Hopefully with Greg's blessing here is the link if you would like to share this with the mother....

 2012/11/24 18:31





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