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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Which Covenant Did Jesus Teach?

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Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

I believe there are many who claim His Name by some traditional method like the sinners prayer that, if He could be heard, we might hear Jesus say these words: "no" _ you are not ready to have a covenant relationship with Me". "Though I call you, I cannot yet chose you".

 2012/11/15 15:35Profile
Croref
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Posts: 334


 Re:

by Sree on 2012/11/15 12:30:36

Quote:

That is exactly what I am saying. Many things that Christ spoke were only for the Jews who were under the law. They where not addressed to everyone.



Preach it, Bro.! "ALL SCRIPTURE is given for reprove and correction"__I think that was written somewhere in the NT.

 2012/11/15 15:39Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

It is important, I think, that we answer some basic questions about the old and new covenants. The first being, what was the purpose of the two covenants?

Gal 3:19 tells us that the law, the first covenant, was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made. That seed, of course, was Christ and it is the seed that Paul says is the one through whom all nations should be blessed. But the law was added first because of sin and second until Christ should come. The significance of this is that Christ was the one who brought a new and living way, a better covenant.

Which begs the second question. What is the nature of the two covenants? The law was a fleshly covenant. It was symbolized in the flesh (circumcision) and it was a covenant of flesh in that it was composed of carnal ordinances (Heb. 9:10). Since the ordinances were carnal, the keeping of the ordinances relied upon the flesh of man. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh (Rom. 8:3). Paul even compares the law with Hagar and Ishmael, and the new covenant to the promised seed Isaac. (Gal. 4). This is done to demonstrate that the law is like the child of the flesh, but the new covenant is of the spirit.

The writer of Hebrews is crystal clear in his explicit statement that the law has been done away with because of its weakness (reference Paul in Romans 8) and unprofitablenes (reference Gal. chapters 2 and 3). By the way, his treatment of this one subject is one of the reasons I feel Paul probably wrote Hebrews.

So, to paint a broad picture that puts all of this together...Man's sin was growing greater and greater. God, because of the transgressions, puts a restraint on sin, the carnal ordinances of the law along with their accompanying consequences. This was a temporary covenant that was in place until the time of the coming of the promised seed, Jesus.

I might also add that God, in His amazing ways, painted a very vivid picture with the law as well as we have been able to see, within the ordinances, types and shadows of the new covenant that was coming. This is why Paul says that the new covenant was witness by both the law and the prophets.

Blessings.


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Travis

 2012/11/15 15:58Profile









 Re:

2 Timothy 3:16 says all scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. But does that impky all scripture is binding upon the believer?

We know the Old Testament us the word of God. There is ni denying that. But because the Old Testament is the word of God. Is the believer under the New Covenant bound to the commands of tbe Old Covenant? I would answer no. The Old Covenant with its laws and commands were given to Israel. They were a shadow prefiguring the Christ to come.

For us, indselt by the Holy Spirit, our covenant is found in tbe New Testament. This covenant is for his bride tbe church. The testator, tbe administrator, indeed tbe bridegroom is Jesus himself. Thus we follow his commands and directions as revealed by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament.

Can a New Covenant believer look to the Old Testament for godly example in Christ like living. Yes, I believe so. But let us remember the commands of the Old Testament were given to Israel. The New Covenant believer is guided by tbe Holy Spirit in the New Testament.

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/15 16:12
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
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 Re:

In capsule form: The old covenant was weak because the righteousness of it was limited to the promise of salvation __weak because flesh was weak in providing what was needed to fulfill the promise. In this regard, God took up what was lacking to the extent He could and paradise could only be that extent until in the "fullness of times", enter the sinless Flesh of Jesus to perform what otherwise could not ever be but and unfulfilled promise.. The basis upon which the new covenant is built goes by the name, "Redemption".

 2012/11/15 16:26Profile









 Re:

Again I think Tuc is raising some interesting observations. Unlike a book written by a single author The Bible was written by many people over several hundred tears. For sure they were inspired by God. But the Bible was reflecting God's unfolding truth as it culminated in the revelation of his Son.

I think we see this in the gospels. There is a transition unfolding in the ministry of Jesus which would close out the Old Covenant and bring in tbe New. The people Jesus was speaking to in the gospels, particularly in Mathew were the Jews. So it would make sense that some of his statements would apply to those under the law.

For an example, in Mathew 23:7 Jesus tells his disciples that the Pharisees and the teachers of the law sit at Moses feet. He tells his disciples to obey them. But do not do what they do. This is clearly implying those Jewish disciples of Jesus were to obey the Jewish teachers of the law until the Spirit was given.

Does the above apply to tbe believer under the completed New Covenant. No. But I see Jesus teaching his disciples in a time of transition between the covenants.

Again ny understanding at this point.

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/15 16:33
Croref
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 Re:

by bearmaster on 2012/11/15 13:33:56

Again I think Tuc is raising some interesting observations. Unlike a book written by a single author The Bible was written by many people over several hundred tears. For sure they were inspired by God. But the Bible was reflecting God's unfolding truth as it culminated in the revelation of his Son.

I think we see this in the gospels. There is a transition unfolding in the ministry of Jesus which would close out the Old Covenant and bring in the New. The people Jesus was speaking to in the gospels, particularly in Mathew were the Jews.




To wit we can all say, "so what"? Who is the seed of Abraham but all who believe in Christ and come to Him having the faith of Abraham in doing so__having already lived under the law of conscience__which could do no more for the gentile then it did for the Jew except justify him?

 2012/11/15 17:17Profile









 Re:

Those under tbe Old Covenant were saved by faith in the promise of a Messiah to come. But did they have the Spirit of Jesus within othem?
Was the law of Christ written on tbeir heart?

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/15 18:27
Croref
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Posts: 334


 Re:

by bearmaster on 2012/11/15 15:27:06

Those under tbe Old Covenant were saved by faithtbe promise of a Messiah to come. But did they have the Spirit of Jesus within.m them?
Was the law of Christ written on tbeir heart?

Bearmaster.




Did they have the faith of Abraham? Yes! Did Abraham have the Spirit of Jesus within him. No. Did he have the law of Christ written on their heart? What law would that be?

 2012/11/15 18:48Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Jesus Christ lived under and taught the the Old Covenant.
Most of His teachings were specifically directed to the Jews who were under the law at that time.



So then are the teachings of Jesus as found in the four gospels not for the church of today other than to be a historical curiosity?

You say "most of His teachings", care to be more specific? Which ones were and which ones were not specifically directed towards the Jews?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2012/11/15 19:21Profile





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