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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Which Covenant Did Jesus Teach?

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RogerB
Member



Joined: 2007/4/5
Posts: 245
Bruceton TN

 Re: Blood Covenant

Great explanation here:

http://www.radicalreformation.com/sermons/sermon/849-blood-atonement


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James R Barnes

 2012/11/14 20:06Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

tuc wrote: "Jesus Christ lived under and taught the the Old Covenant."

No Jesus is the eternal Son of God and is before the Old Covenant. His words are ETERNAL.

tuc wrote: "Most of His teachings were specifically directed to the Jews who were under the law at that time."

Well if that is true, you might as well cut the gospels out of your bible! This view conveniently takes the cutting edge away from Jesus' words as they no longer apply to me. This is dispensationlism at it's worst!

I have also heard teachers dismiss all the warning passaages in Hebrews as not applying to us, but the Jews. Utter nonsense!

If you take this type of teaching to it's logical conclusion, then none of the bible was written to us today but was literally to those to whom it was written at that time. Now you are left with nothing!!


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Dave

 2012/11/15 6:06Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

A good headsup call, Heydave!! In fact reform teaching, as presented by most, also fits that bill. "All we have to do is believe".

Thanks.

 2012/11/15 6:45Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

dear dave, any truth carried to its extreem is error save for Jesus. it is true that His words are eternal and it is also true that He lived before He cut the covenant at the cross (old covenant).the word of God has everlasting wisdom and is for everyone; the ten commandments is a great example.micah 6:8,the psalms,proverbs... now the 600 rules you must live by were for the old covenant believers.i tell newbies that the old testiment from gen 3:15 to john is the story of the seed line and satans efforts to destroy it.jimp

 2012/11/15 7:41Profile









 Re:

Does it apply to you when when Christ said, "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."

If so have you done it?

Even if anyone did sell everything it would never bring him any closer to God.

It is vital that we understand that the Old and New Covenant can NOT be mixed.

I now live daily enjoying Christ Himself within me under the New Covenant and I am no longer concerned with the old at all.


 2012/11/15 14:03
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

Does it apply to you when when Christ said, "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."

If so have you done it?

Even if anyone did sell everything it would never bring him any closer to God.



Those words were addressed to the rich young man, it was not addressed to everyone. If Jesus had told this as a teaching then we must obey it. But he did not.

The verse you quoted itself contradicts your theology, this young man said he kept all the law and Jesus did not deny it. If Jesus was preaching Old Covenant then he should have told him you will inherit the kingdom. But he told him to take up the cross and follow him. This is new covenant. Where is taking up the cross told in Old Covenant? Show me one reference of it if you can.

I am posting my simple question again, if Jesus preached old covenant and lived in that then why is he asking me to follow him? Indirectly it means follow old covenant like how I did. How is it possible? Why then is Apostle Paul (who according to you is new covenant man) is saying Follow me as I follow Christ? See if your theology cannot answer 1 question then it is wrong, that is it. Anything against the word of God is wrong.

Jesus all his 33.5 years lived the life showing us God (John 14:9), lets not argue on what kind of life it is. It is the life of God, completely pleasing him and completely showing the glory of God to mankind. It was possible by Jesus because he was filled by the Holy Spirit and Jesus was obedient to the Spirit even to the point of death. No one in Old Covenant was able to do it. But in New Covenant starting with Jesus many like Apostles were able to do it. Any believer can do the same, if he truly believes in God. This is simple Gospel, unmasked by any manmade theology. Why is it so tough to believe and why should man try to add or remove things from it?


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Sreeram

 2012/11/15 14:39Profile









 Re:

I think Tuc is rightly calling us to rethink our paradyne. If the New Covenant be Jesus in us the hope of glory. Then I for one need to take a closer look at this.

I used to be in Presbyterianism. They teach an everlasting covenant to justify infant baptism. Even a casual reading of Hebrews would refute that idea. The scrputures do teach that there were two covenants . One was made with Israel. That would be the Old Testament. Tbe other was made for the church. That would be the New Testament.

Just my understanding at this point.

Bearmaster.

 2012/11/15 14:46









 Re:

Quote:

Those words were addressed to the rich young man, it was not addressed to everyone. If Jesus had told this as a teaching then we must obey it. But he did not.



That is exactly what I am saying. Many things that Christ spoke were only for the Jews who were under the law. They where not addressed to everyone.

Do you believe that if the rich young ruler would have sold all that he had, that he would have eternal life?

 2012/11/15 15:13
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

I think Tuc is rightly calling us to rethink our paradyne. If the New Covenant be Jesus in us the hope of glory. Then I for one need to take a closer look at this.



There is nothing right in this kind of thinking. Such wrong theology will make you ignore the teachings of Jesus as Old Covenant. The standard preached and kept by Jesus is much higher than that of any old covenant teaching or living. How can this be reduced to lower standard old covenant?

I agree that What apostle Paul says to Colossians, that Christ in you is the hope of Glory. This is the specialty of New Covenant, to have Christ in us. How can a physical body of Christ live in us? It is the Spirit of Christ that Paul is referring to which is the Holy Spirit. So Holy Spirit living in us to power us to do the will of God is the hope of our Glory.

Now lets go back to the life of Jesus, was he filled with the Holy Spirit? Yes, the same Apostle Paul tells to Colossians that it is good pleasure for the Spirit to dwell in Jesus. Also John 3 tells us that Jesus received the Holy Spirit and it reminded in him all his life. Now if you combine both the facts, what kind of life did Jesus live? New Covenant life because he was full of the spirit.

Now why does the Bible say that new covenant was established through the blood of Jesus? Because we were originally sinners and fallen short of Glory, The Holy Spirit cannot live inside us because our ways are against God. Now when the blood of Jesus cleanses a believer then he is eligible or qualified for the Spirit to live in him. Jesus did not sin in his life hence he did not need the blood or any other means to cleanse his sin for the Spirit to dwell in him. He lived the New Covenant life as an example to us. That is why he is our elder brother in faith, a forerunner (who ran ahead of us), someone who entered into the veil before us.

Now why do people cannot see this truth and run away from it in the name of Theology? Because New Covenant life and standard shown by Jesus is very high. These people cannot live it nor are the interested to live it. Hence they called it an old covenant so that they can escape from it. If you look into their life there will be shameful testimony like Divorce, immorality etc. They are blinds leading blinds.


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Sreeram

 2012/11/15 15:25Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

That is exactly what I am saying. Many things that Christ spoke were only for the Jews who were under the law. They where not addressed to everyone.




Sorry to say, this is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. Just because one word was addressed to someone else does not mean everything was addressed to others and not us.

Then according to your logic John 3:16 should be addressed only to Nicodemus and not to us. Why do you guys use this alone saying it is complete Gospel?
You still cannot answer my question 'how can Jesus ask us to follow him? why is Apostle Paul asking us to follow him?'
Neither you nor the guy who wrote the orginial article can answer this.


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Sreeram

 2012/11/15 15:30Profile





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