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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Afraid to call Roman Catholicism Heresy? (moderators please read/respond)

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 Re:

Paul,
So you know, I never used the word, nor verbiage, you stated "mindlessly" supporting Greg's policies. I did not, nor would the Spirit of the Lord allow me to, say those words, nor have that heart/intention. Go back and Reread my post.
Robert,
I understand you may have discussed it in the past, but the fact is that now, for whatever reason, it's not only "not the focus" of the site (nor should it be), but it's discouraged, minimized, covered over, & THREAD LOCKED. I'm going on the recent experience I've seen only, not presumption or history.
Armkelly,
To call a RCC "Bishop" buy his title, give him deference in his error/deception, etc., proves my entire point on the subject. This system is anti-Christ through and through and you would support and give credence to it? Would I provide a bed for a RCC "bishop" if he was without a place to lay his head? Yeah, if the Lord was in it, so I could preach the Gospel to him, preach/teach truth from the scriptures, help him see the error of RCC (that he could repent and truly be born again), etc. would I just welcome him and his teaching in my home, call him "bishop", and just give him place to sleep so he could teach RCC at my local catholic cathedral? Absolutely not. The difference? Purpose. Intention. Motivation. SCRIPTURE. This doscussion's necessity among people daily on a christian forum website proves my whole point actually. Keep scooting error under the rug and eventually confusion is rampant

 2012/11/13 12:26
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
So you know, I never used the word, nor verbiage, you stated "mindlessly" supporting Greg's policies. I did not, nor would the Spirit of the Lord allow me to, say those words, nor have that heart/intention. Go back and Reread my post.


Friend, I reread your post. When you mention us supporting Greg's "blanket policies" without any prayer, this, to me, denotes mindless (without the mind of Christ) support. How do you know about our prayer regarding these policies, or lack thereof? That was all I meant.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2012/11/13 12:47Profile









 Re:

In fact, there are CLEARLY people in our fellowship with teaching gifts, pastoral gifts, evangelistic gifts, prophetic gifts, etc. We don't call each other "Prophetess so-and-so", Pastor So and so, Teacher so and so, etc. Jesus said, "Call no man Teacher, or Father, for we all have one Father in heaven....". So, if we don't call each other (true brethren), by titles other than our names and maybe Brother so and so, then why on earth would I call a false teacher, in a false religion, by a false teacher with "Bishop John" from the RCC? Wouldn't that DIRECTLY contradict what Jesus said there and give false credence to their error? Love speaks the truth.
"Truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is sentimentality"
Art Katz

 2012/11/13 12:49









 Re: Afraid to call Roman Catholicism Heresy? (moderators please read/respond)

Quote:
To call a RCC "Bishop" buy his title, give him deference in his error/deception, etc., proves my entire point on the subject. This system is anti-Christ through and through and you would support and give credence to it? Would I provide a bed for a RCC "bishop" if he was without a place to lay his head? Yeah, if the Lord was in it, so I could preach the Gospel to him, preach/teach truth from the scriptures, help him see the error of RCC (that he could repent and truly be born again), etc. would I just welcome him and his teaching in my home, call him "bishop", and just give him place to sleep so he could teach RCC at my local catholic cathedral? Absolutely not! The difference? Purpose. Intention. Motivation. SCRIPTURE. This discussion’s necessity among people daily on a Christian forum website proves my whole point actually. Keep scooting error under the rug and eventually confusion is rampant. Jeffmar




Brother jeffmar I admire and respect your honesty and zeal for the Lord. If you look back at a few threads on this subject I have also made some clear and unequivocal statements about the RCC. I am only sharing in this way to press a balance between respecting the governance of this ministry (SI) and that which The Lord Himself is doing across the world in seeking to deliver His people from a system of world (catholic) religion with all of its lies and sins. Yes from hell too, but for those who are yet alive from the consequences of those lies and sins. This deliverance is coming and when it comes it will be a wonder and a marvel. There are many true saints who have no love for this system of religion but take the words of Revelations seriously when it prophetically makes certain that there is coming a day when this world (catholic) and Roman system will be judged. Many of these people are in Italy itself. There is no confusion on their part or mine as to the realities involved.

I do not fellowship with Rome but I will fellowship with any saint where my spirit bears witness to their belonging to Christ. If this means eating with them and giving them a bed then so be it. It is the least thing one can do. I don’t suppose the bishop of Rome would ever be in need of either of these things, neither would I call him brother, but if he were when that judgment comes, even if in the very last minute he changed his mind and cried out to God I would if it were possible be there to minister to him in Christ Name. In the mean time the point is a facile one.The judgment that is coming on Rome is no fanciful event. It will be real and will make of even strong men, little children. Others will rage and perish. Only The Lord Himself knows these things. In the end however as far as this subject is concerned openly and systematically speaking against anything per se is discouraged in favor of presenting the substance that is Christ Himself apart from men.


My home is a private place so when I call a man bishop it is because he is by name a bishop. No one is harmed by what happens in my home. I cover my family and know how to resist evil. I could not be found in the local RCC so there is no issue. Moreover if it pleased God to set me before the bishop of Rome I would be compelled by reason of obedience to call him lord Bishop. If you cannot understand this then I respectfully suggest it is because you will have no such responsibility. In every age and throughout the Scriptures all in authority are given the title lord, including the apostate and wicked kings. Only prophets are treated with complete contempt if they err, and so it should be because they are without excuse.

 2012/11/13 13:09









 Re:

Paul,
Just to clarify, I was merely speaking of "blanket policy" as a matter of definition. Everyone says its "in the SI statements/policies about its purpose" & there's no place for expose. I meant no slander or negative connotation/confrontation, just stating what was presented to me.
I also wasn't saying that noone prayed about the site or sought the Lord's leadings, but just asking for the moderators to follow their own rules on "praying before posting" in response to what I'm saying. That's all. I'm not trying to be contentious or argumentative. My heart is burning that the church see the compromise/avoidance lately of the RCC doctrines in what I believe is a spiritually detrimental (& anti-scriptural) skirting of this grievous error which is gaining deceptive steam among those who profess the name of Christ. Why not take down Steve Gallagher's messages on Apostacy, Babylon, etc., if we shy away from the "Mother of all harlots"? What are we REALLY gaining in dodging/avoiding/locking this discussion?

 2012/11/13 13:09
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by jeffmar on 2012/11/13 6:13:24

I understand what you're saying, but disagree with "seeker sensitive" "felt-needs" evangelism. Not because I'm unloving, but because Jesus did. Was it unloving of Christ to touch on the idols of the Rich Young Ruler's heart and that he should walk away? Jesus wept over it in compassion, but still didnt skirt the issue and avoid the idolatry in his heart.
Besides that, even worse would be your mother coming to SI, see these issues avoided and ignored, & get the idea that her RCC was Ok, like just another denominational choice within the IC (like MANY now believe wrongly) & be deceived and go to hell. And then, one day, at the Great White Throne Judgement, scream, cry, weep, & wail and ask "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THE TRUTH THAT COULDA SET ME FREE?!!!"
God is Soveriegn over salvation. You/I are not. Therefore our job under scripture is to be loving & compassionate, but faithful. Evangelism should start with a desire to do the Will of the Father FIRST. Then our compassion for people is clean. Otherwise, our emotions for people are stronger than our desire to serve/please the Father (like Jesus). Felt-needs evangelism and seeker sensitive mentality has the Gospel/evangelism upside down. Jesus came to save us cause He had his heart set on doing the will of the Father First and Foremost. Did he love and have compassion for us? Yes! But his FIRST AND DRIVING MOTIVATION WAS TO PLEASE HIS FATHER & DO HIS WILL FAITHFULLY! God is Soveriegn in salvation, not man, his methods, his emotions, his fears of how God's truth comes across, etc.
Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not to your own understanding.

______________

Greetings Jeff

I assume this post was meant as a reply to me since I was speaking about my mother:) First let me just say I was in no way implying anyone should be "seeking sensitive" and I hardly think that the SI forum could be described that way. Of course I have and do share truth with my mother. I do not want her to end up in hell and I do realize if she does not repent that is where she will be but I have learned that attacking her beliefs does little but drive her further away. I have learned to shared truth with her from a loving heart and to live daily seeking JESUS on her behalf. She does know I do "not" believe that the RCC is a christian church, she also knows that I believe that the RCC is pagan and false so telling her that over and over every time we talk is going to do nothing to draw her to JESUS. However as I share with her all that CHRIST has done in my life and I point her to JESUS, GOD has used these times to prick her heart and there have been doors opened. Of course I stand my ground and I do not back down when she talks about topics relating to the RCC because there can be no compromise but sharing with her and lecturing her are two different things...for me I have learned that one is done in love while the other is done in pride.

I do understand your heart and your zeal over this topic. I love my mother and I want to see her come to JESUS. Not just for her own sake but because JESUS is worthy of HIS reward. I do believe we need to speak truth but it must be in HIS timing and not our own. IT also must be in love and honestly some of the threads that have been on this forum concerning this issue have been less then loving and I think that is what the mods are attempting to avoid.


God bless
mj

 2012/11/13 13:14Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 A Reminder of our Lord's own caution

Jesus spoke a parable about this very type of situation and we will do well to seek to properly understand it and apply it. I refer to the parable of the Tares.

The parable indicated that the "tares" were sown "in the midst" of the wheat. The servants of the Master who sowed the good seed recognized the "tares" as the heads began to form. In their zeal, they asked the Master if He would have them pluck up the "tares" immediately. The Master wisely answered No! - lest the wheat be uprooted also.

May the Lord grant us wisdom in how to recognize the "tares" in our midst without uprooting our brethren in the process.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2012/11/13 13:23Profile









 Re:

Amrkelly,
What you stated in your second email is different, much more qualified, than your first. Yes, I would accept any brethren as such, preach the truth to them, love them (leaving them in grievous error is NOT love), etc. ALL the RCC I have ever known who got truly born again, the Spirit of God instantly opened their eyes to the false religion & idolatry of RCC & RAN!! So if someone had NO conscience of these things while steeped in idolatry and satanic religion, I would have to presume their yet "unregenerate" condition. I would lovingly point out some scriptures (while praying & relying on the Holy Spirit to lead me), & then see if they viciously defend their religion that they were clearly shown was AGAINST scripture? If the Lord opened their eyes (all at once or progressively) then praise God He is truly working in their heart and using His Word to shed light on darkness in their heart/life. If they totally reject/resist it, I might ask them to lay hands on them and pray for deliverance from this dark demonic delusion.
And as for calling them not just bishop, but Lord Bishop? Are you serious? Did you not read Jesus' words in scripture in my last post? Honor for a king, president, boss, etc. is one thing. Calling a false religion title person "Lord Bishop"? Again, in love, the more this discussion goes on, the more necessary it is to have it & quit avoiding/locking threads on it. Everyone has head knowledge of RCC, but seems unwilling to lovingly take it head on the way our Lord took on the Jews, His instructions in scripture call us to, etc. I will call no man Lord or Lord Bishop. I am not "anti-authority" either (quite the contrary actually), but that floors me.

 2012/11/13 13:28
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

I grew up a Catholic and I remained Catholic until I was 25 years of age. And I was definitely a Christian by age 4. For the first 12 years of my Catholcism the mass was in latin. So I read the epistles placed in the pews, these were the writings directly from the New Testament. Being an avid reader, I read the words of the New Testament in Church. In my teens, and as a young adult, I was hungry for the word of God, I read the Bible. The more I read, the more I learned, the more I learned from the Bible, the more incongruity I saw between in the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, and of the promises of the Jewish (Old) Testament.

At 25 years of age, I left the RCC because their doctrines did not wash with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the promises of the OT. The RCC salvation was based on personal sacrifice and works, do and do nots, and not by the 'Free gift' of Jesus blood, the blood that atones for all our sins as the ultimate covering our sins - Past, Present, and Future, to all whom believe God and accept the blood covering of the unblemished Lamb of God, who came to take our sins by He who did not sin, but rather, took our sins upon our sins, and Jesus took our place on the cross, that we may live with Him forever, in Paradise.

There are many Catholics that are Christians, saved not by keeping the Catholic Sacrements, but by their accepting the blood Jesus as atonement of the Lamd Of God, Jesus Christ. Yet they keep their Catholicism they grew up in, with family and friends.

In my experience Most Catholics do not even know what their Church actually teaches, the Catholic Magisterial is enormous and very few Catholics actually read it. I Label these Christians as Billy Graham Christians. They hear a Billy Graham on Television or in person, and they fully agree with the pronounced true Gospel, not even knowing what their own Church actually teaches on salvation. So they have the Gospel, and they believe the Billy Graham call to true salvation, but still see themselves as being Catholic.

Here, on sermonindex, it may well prove to be foolish to attack the Catholic Church per se. Our focus should be on the teachings of Christ and accomplishments of Jesus Christ in that He took our sins upon His-self, and thereby becoming the sin bearer whom took away all sins and nailed them on the cross, to all who accepted His death on the cross in our place, and whose BLOOD washes away all our sins for all time to those who believe HIM. AND THIS, A GIFT, FREELY GIVEN FROM GOD TO ALL WHO RECEIVE AND ACCEPT THE FREE GIFT. There is nothing we can do to earn it.


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/11/13 13:50Profile









 that was a good word ArtB

as a Jew who follows Jesus i have quite a different take on the POWER STRUCTURE of the roman institution, but i'll stay my keyboard, i love you in Messiah brother.

what i find VERY telling about this forum, is that while the moderators swear up and down, "we eschew political discussions", they say NOTHING about a current thread abrewing, its an abomination, about 20 states wanting to "seceed" from the United States......while brother Jeffmar gets pilloried for saying what ought be said.

 2012/11/13 14:11





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