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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A different Kingdom?

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jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 290


 Re:

Dear Croref

To be discipled, and to follow Him, seeking His Kingdom and storing up treasures there.

My assembly? You ask a hard question Bro. They sure don't live up to what it could be, neither do I. But as iron sharpens iron we shape each other's countenance. The closer I am to My Father, the greater the blessing of our interactions.

Got to run .... Planning to have family assembly (I like your alternative word for "church")tonight. Want to share with my wife & 4 daughters what is on my heart for us at the moment - obedience.


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J Kruger

 2012/11/14 10:25Profile
arkp
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 51


 Re:

by Croref on 2012/11/14 7:06:15

Croref,

You have no idea, what you have just done. To delete your post, you have cancelled the work of God's Holy Spirit. How do you feel right, now! Are you in anyway grieved, do you not understand..That when Jesus died on the cross, it was for you as well as for myself, and others who accepted the invitation towards Salvation. Do you not fear, the living God in the Moderators? For this i am out!!

Believers, have been saved from the guilt and penalty of sin. Believers, have been saved from the habit and dominion of sin. Believers, will be saved at the Lord's return, from all the bodily infirmities, and curse; brought into an entire conformity to Christ..

Salvation, is by grace throught faith. It's a free gift and wholly without works. The devine order: is First Salvation, then works.

To insinuate that you were once saved and no longer need salvation, sounds selfrighteous; in essence the cross means nothing to you, and the fact that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrifice. I guess communion means the same thing to you as well. When was the last time you had communion and repented of your sins; remebering who hung on the Cross? God looked for someone that would stand in the gap and intercede, he found no-one, so he himself interceded for us, he paid the price.

Enough said...

 2012/11/14 10:39Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

Those of us who know there is more in the scriptures having to do with God seeking those with a pure motivation, to know Him for Who He is rather than to know Him because of His great salvation, will always have a problem when conversing with those who don’t see it that way. The arguments presented most often stem from an incomplete understanding of the gospel; from that part having to with the assurance of their own welfare in Christ and not from the desire to serve Him for His sake alone. Depending upon which side of the issue of redemption one stands will determine how he reads his bible which will reveal what you are up against when the discussion ever so slightly deepens. It will be from either a self-centered perspective or a God-centered one__and we know full well which side the enemy loves for us to take.

 2012/11/16 8:05Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: A different Kingdom?

can some one explain me what is meant by this with an example?
'effects of Redemption in human life'.

I am not a theologian and I do not understand certain terms commonly used by such people.

According to me 'effects of redemption in human life' means the change that being redeemed with God can bring inside us. Which according to me is Holiness, Christlikeness, divine love for the neighbors etc. What is wrong in preaching them?


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Sreeram

 2012/11/16 10:22Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by Sree on 2012/11/16 7:22:32

can some one explain me what is meant by this with an example?
'effects of Redemption in human life'.

I am not a theologian and I do not understand certain terms commonly used by such people.

According to me 'effects of redemption in human life' means the change that being redeemed with God can bring inside us. Which according to me is Holiness, Christlikeness, divine love for the neighbors etc. What is wrong in preaching them?




Would that not be the effects of being "born again".

The effects of redemption without being born again, which is what is being presented, can only be the results of having a presumptive perspective, i,e., Jesus did therefore I am__lets go get our chicken dinner.

 2012/11/16 11:16Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

Would that not be the effects of being "born again".

The effects of redemption without being born again, which is what is being presented, can only be the results of having a presumptive perspective, i,e., Jesus did therefore I am__lets go get our chicken dinner.


I understand what you say, but the quote sounds different from what you are saying.

Quote:

If we preach the effects of Redemption in human life instead of the revelation regarding Jesus, the result in those who listen is not new birth, but refined spiritual culture, and the Spirit of God cannot witness to it because such preaching is in another domain....a different Kingdom


If I paraphase it according to my understanding then :-

If we preach the effects of Redemption in human life like Holiness instead of the revelation regarding the life of Jesus, then the listeners will not be regenerated they will only have a refined spiritual culture and not the true life of Christ (like the form of external Godliness that Paul explains to Galatians).

You are trying to tell me that he said preaching these effects of redemption to people who are not born again will result in people assuming that the work is already done. This is true but I am not sure the speaker is refering to this scenario. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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Sreeram

 2012/11/16 11:58Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by Sree on 2012/11/16 8:58:46

Quote:

Would that not be the effects of being "born again".

The effects of redemption without being born again, which is what is being presented, can only be the results of having a presumptive perspective, i,e., Jesus did therefore I am__lets go get our chicken dinner.


I understand what you say, but the quote sounds different from what you are saying.

Quote:

If we preach the effects of Redemption in human life instead of the revelation regarding Jesus, the result in those who listen is not new birth, but refined spiritual culture, and the Spirit of God cannot witness to it because such preaching is in another domain....a different Kingdom


Quote:
If I paraphase it according to my understanding then :-

If we preach the effects of Redemption in human life like Holiness instead of the revelation regarding the life of Jesus, then the listeners will not be regenerated they will only have a refined spiritual culture and not the true life of Christ (like the form of external Godliness that Paul explains to Galatians).


The which they will tire of absent revelation truth.

Quote:
You are trying to tell me that he said preaching these effects of redemption to people who are not born again will result in people assuming that the work is already done. This is true but I am not sure the speaker is refering to this scenario. Please correct me if I am wrong.



I believe he is but I don't have a problem with your take on it either. Either way, presumption seems to be the thing that is birthed in them. A crossless Christ easily comes to mind; salvation without repentance. I can live my life and still have Jesus which is an open door for the promotion of additional false teachings found in Christian psychology self help books.

Thanks Sree. I think you are on track.

 2012/11/16 12:12Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

Either way, presumption seems to be the thing that is birthed in them. A crossless Christ easily comes to mind; salvation without repentance. I can live my life and still have Jesus which is an open door for the promotion of additional false teachings found in Christian psychology self help books.



I agree with you. I see this presumption in some posters here. This presumption has blinded their eyes from seeing their own spiritual condition. They have some theoretical idea of salvation that cannot be lived but only understood in brain. Such a understanding is useless. If I cannot see Jesus saving me practically then what is the use if I end up in heaven? Christainity is 100% practical, every word can be lived and Jesus showed us that. That is why John described Jesus as - 1 John 1:1-
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us.

Jesus manifested or demonstrated the word of eternal life. It is not some theology that he explained, it is a life. This is our calling as well.


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Sreeram

 2012/11/16 12:49Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by Sree on 2012/11/16 9:49:31

I agree with you. I see this presumption in some posters here. This presumption has blinded their eyes from seeing their own spiritual condition. They have some theoretical idea of salvation that cannot be lived but only understood in brain. Such a understanding is useless. If I cannot see Jesus saving me practically then what is the use if I end up in heaven? Christainity is 100% practical, every word can be lived and Jesus showed us that. That is why John described Jesus as - 1 John 1:1-
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us.




Thank you Sree. We will all know we are on the right track when our motivation is, by our faith, perfected in our worship of Him__24-7__not because of what He did but because of Who He is. Short of that will reveal the shallow redemption stories birthed in unbelief and victimization resulting in the believing it is about us because He loves us and requires nothing but our signature to a pledge upon reading a statement of faith and profession.

What a sad commentary from a people [leadership] who should know better.

 2012/11/16 13:50Profile





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