SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : So who were the "sons of God" spoken of in Genesis?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 So who were the "sons of God" spoken of in Genesis?

Some here took umbrage at my last thread believing it to be of no value.

Though there is the same unspoken word to deal with I trust this thread will be viewed differently insofar as God, His Hope, was not done with man after Adam transgressed. So what further could He do to reveal Himself that man might be rectified in his thinking?

 2012/11/10 6:21Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re: So who were the "sons of God" spoken of in Genesis?

And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man Luk 17:26

And will we see there return?


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/11/10 8:03Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

Re: So who were the "sons of God" spoken of in Genesis?
by murrcolr on 2012/11/10 5:03:20

And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man Luk 17:26

And will we see there return?

Quote:


Are they not already in the earth __ [some] apostatizing as we speak? And unless He shortens the time left us. . .

 2012/11/10 8:37Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Murrcolr,

Quote:
And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the
Son of man Luk 17:26

And will we see there return?



We have had this discussion in the past so it may be worth doing a search to get some other views of it. Here is one link to a tremendous and insightful discussion back in 2006.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=7637&forum=36&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=1]Who were the sons of God?

I will only add a few thoughts. Some people contend that Luke 17:26 may not be referreing to the matter of the sons of God and the Nephilim, though they believe the sons of god were fallen angels. We have this context:

Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

These passages are sort of parallel in their message. Some would see it as a 'business as usual' attitude when judgment was at the door. But I would argue in addition to that, that there is a perverse element to this as well. God destroyed the word in Genesis 6 for a good reason and He destroyed Sodom for a good reason. You will notice in the story of Lot and Sodom that the people were scratching at the door to get to the angels. When Jude describes Sodom's sin he said they went after 'other' or 'another' flesh. The Greek word is heteros. We get our word heterosexual from it. Had homosexual been in view heteros would not have been used. It means 'other' flesh, as in there is a flesh of beasts and a flesh of fish, etc. It is my view that it was the hetero flesh of angels that had taken on human form. This is not a novel view, but a very very old one that dates to antiquity. Keep in mind that even after they had been blinded by the angels, they still scratched at the door. It is my view that they had already become so perverse that they we heading back to the horrific sins of Genesis 6.

Keep in mind that Zoar was spared by God though it was on the list to be destroyed. Why? Lot wanted to move there. Why? It was a 'little' city that looked like Egypt (hence, a little bit of Egypt). God wanted to nip this cancerous sin in the bud, but Lot wanted his compromise. What happened? Some 400 years later the children of Israel are spying out the land and run into what?

And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.” (Numbers 13:33)

Was Galiath of Gath a descendant of Nephilim born in the land (that was ready to vomit the people out) because the sin of Sodom that was also in Zoar had come to fruition and replayed the Genesis 6 events? In other words, Zoar was not as advanced in sexual sin as was Sodom when Lot arrived, but did it eventually surpass Sodom to where God had to send Israel in to clean up the land? There was no restraint on sexual activity prior to the law of Moses, except some people had a sense that certain things were wrong. If the Rabbi's are to be believed the 7 Noahide laws, one of which was a prohibition of sexual immorality would have been in play after Noah. But still we have this evidence on the table that seems pretty easy to connect the dots.


So, will we see this happen again and is this part of the question in Luke 17:26? I don't have enough confidence in fallen man to say NO. Man has consistently shown his thirst for progressive perversity. Fornication, a damnable sin, is treated as if it is normative behavior. But no one hardly wants to ask, where is all of this headed? We have pedophiles in prison trying to set up advocacy groups to try and introduce laws and rights for pedophiles. In other words, they are pressing for pedophile to be a sexual orientation. By way of analogy when I was in High School being referred to as a homosexual were fighting words and an insult of the worst kind. Today the behavior is lauded and celebrated. That has been in the last 30-35 years.

If we continue at this pace, what will 100 years look like? What will be legal and normal? The unlocked wheels of men's lusts are blazing towards Genesus 6 in my view and will be met this time with Fire and Blood. What did the Revelation say? Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. (Revelation 9:21) Just some of my more radical thoughts on the subject. Blessings.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/11/10 8:55Profile









 Re: So who were the "sons of God" spoken of in Genesis?

Quote:
Some here took umbrage at my last thread believing it to be of no value.

The bible is a book of information, it's not the word of God. The word of God is not ink and paper, it's Jesus Christ. Jesus is not dead but alive. Paul calls the OT a dead book, but when the Spirit extracts the word of God from it and illuminates our spirit then it becomes alive in us.

Information alone is never going to edify the spirit. We should be looking for the revelation within what we are reading so we do not walk away with a head full of knowledge and speculation.

I am for this discussion brother.

 2012/11/10 8:56
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by Approved on 2012/11/10 5:56:47

Quote:
Some here took umbrage at my last thread believing it to be of no value.

The bible is a book of information, it's not the word of God. The word of God is not ink and paper, it's Jesus Christ. Jesus is not dead but alive. Paul calls the OT a dead book, but when the Spirit extracts the word of God from it and illuminates our spirit then it becomes alive in us.

Information alone is never going to edify the spirit. We should be looking for the revelation within what we are reading so we do not walk away with a head full of knowledge and speculation.

I am for this discussion brother.


Lets go a step further to say the Bible is a dead book__alive to those only OF Christ? What say you, Bro.? Will that not satisfy the issue?

 2012/11/10 9:29Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by RobertW on 2012/11/10 5:55:13

G'mornin' Robert!

Can we not say for a certainty and that it be held an absolute in our thinking that angels cannot reproduce and go from there with the rest of what we might believe when making our case[s]?

 2012/11/10 9:33Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi CroRef,

Quote:
Can we not say for a certainty and that it be held an absolute in our thinking that angels cannot reproduce and go from there with the rest of what we might believe when making our case[s]?



In the similar sense to when Satan took on the form of the Serpent, angels can take on human form. Hebrews 13:2 tells us we have entertained angels unawares. Satan can even transform himself into an angel of light. Angels are greater in power and might than man and God has already said of man, nothing shall be restrained from him that he had imagined to do. (Genesis 11:6)

We have this additional insight that I want to draw from a past conversation on this subject:

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 6)

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

The context of 1 Peter 3:19-20 is interesting. Why should Peter identify these spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1Pe 3:19-20 KJV)? He is clearly talking about two different beings, "spirits in prison" and "souls saved by water".

This is tall corn as they say, but the story of the flood would seem to begin with the account of 'rebellious spirits'. The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (Genesis 6:2 KJV) This brings us to Jude 6, And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation. Our word here for 'habitation' is a word that means 'house' or dwelling place. They had the power to do it, and they apparently did.


"The Old Testament only ever seems to use 'sons of God' to describe angels. It is a very apt description of angels in that they were not 'sons' to anyone else; they were created as an entire species by God Himself. Those who have received their life direct from God, without an intermediary, are justifiably described as 'sons of God'; Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.(philologos on Luke 3:38 KJV)

Again, the letter of Jude includes an interesting verse; And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6 KJV) Now who are these? and again why are they singled out from all 'fallen angels'. If it is true that demons are 'fallen angels' we know that a fair number over them are definitely not 'reserved in everlasting chains' but are wreaking destruction worldwide. There seems to be a sub-set of fallen angels here who have received unique punishment; who are they? Could they be the 'rebellious 'sons of God' of Genesis 6 whose offspring are called Nephilim (fallen ones)? and if so what happened to them after the Flood?

Were they 'imprisoned' in 'everlasting chains'? Why was their sins so punished? There is a cryptic comment regarding Noah; These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. (Gen 6:9 KJV) whereas God's description of the rest of humanity is; The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. (Gen 6:11-12 KJV).

It seems as though Noah and his family may have been the last pure-bred humans on earth. If Noah and his family had become 'corrupted' in their generations there could have been no incarnation. This rebellion would have blocked the way to Christ being made flesh. Their rebellion was quoshed and the wicked spirits that had instigated it were put 'in prison', 'reserved in everlasting chains'.

I think it is these to whom Christ preached 'in prison'. The word 'preach' here is not 'evangelise' but 'proclaim'. The NASB has captured the sense well; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, (1Pe 3:19 NASB) The purpose of the 'preaching' was not to deliver these 'spirits in prison' but to proclaim the finality of God's plan in Christ. Their wicked plan had been frustrated and Christ declared his triumph to these spirits in prison.

This can only ever be a hypothesis. We don't have enough information to settle it as a biblical doctrine but, to me, it is the best hypothesis I have been able to shape." (Excerpt taken from http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2942&forum=36&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0)

As an additional thought I want to suggest that God would have never destroyed the world over unequally yoked marriages. The sin nature is transmitted to all people so it is nonsense to think a pure blood line could have been maintained by marrying up the sons of Seth with the sons of Seth. Noah and his kids were of the sons of Seth and their descendents plunged the world into ruin. One of the greatest truths in the bible is that Godliness and election are not naturally heriditary but spiritually (In Christ). Blessings.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/11/10 12:19Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by RobertW on 2012/11/10 9:19:09

Hi CroRef,

Quote:
Can we not say for a certainty and that it be held an absolute in our thinking that angels cannot reproduce and go from there with the rest of what we might believe when making our case[s]?



In the similar sense to when Satan took on the form of the Serpent, angels can take on human form. Hebrews 13:2 tells us we have entertained angels unawares. Satan can even transform himself into an angel of light. Angels are greater in power and might than man and God has already said of man, nothing shall be restrained from him that he had imagined to do. (Genesis 11:6)


Angels were individually created. In addition, they are sexless__and needed only have been. OMT: Adam was also called a son of God. He, too, was but formed out of dirt.

OMT2: Kindly read this verse and try to explain it away to be speaking of angels__OK? Gen 4:26. Thanks Robert.

 2012/11/10 12:33Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

Since there is little to go on in the OT for us to understand who were the sons of God mentioned in Genesis, must it necessarily leave us to conclude God was finished in the development of His creation for knowing Him as their Spiritual Father__however limited it might now be because of Adam’s transgression? Must we believe that God stopped communicating with His "sons"?

 2012/11/10 12:53Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy