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Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 After Death

I'm just curious to what you all think about what happens immediatly after death. Do we go to heaven or hell right away? Sleep in our graves until the Lord returns? I'm interested to know what you think.

And also, what do you think happened to the people in the Old Testament when they died?

-Eli


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/2/28 14:04Profile









 Re: After Death

We come back again, until the Lord returns and we go to final judgement.

Bubbaguy

BTW, my conception of hell is like zero. It will be eternal punishment alright, but its more like the difference between a unipolar and bipolar universe. In the unipolar, theres's only moving towards God, or moving away. Its not like we move toward God, and then toward the devil (bipolar) Satan is a personification and conceptualization of nonexistence, which is hell, because there is no life in it. For those who reject God, it will be as if they never existed.

 2005/2/28 14:17
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
We come back again, until the Lord returns and we go to final judgement.



Interesting...Care to explain where in the Bible you find that?

Quote:

Satan is a personification and conceptualization of nonexistence, which is hell, because there is no life in it. For those who reject God, it will be as if they never existed.



Again, You baffle me with your comments, are you saying that Satan doesn't exist?
I'm sorry, but nothing you say lines up with the Word of God.


_________________
Mark

 2005/2/28 16:26Profile









 Re:


Satan's greatest accomplishment is convincing people he is real. What greatly disturbs me about the traditional reading of heaven and hell is that the devil wins at some level. Hell is permanent, everlasting punishment and he's won souls to torment, forever according to this view.

The permanence of evil is an illusion. Murder, self regard over others, coveting your neighbor's wife etc. are sins and we describe them as evil. But you can just as easily describe them as stupid, nonfunctional behaviors that serve noone. Because that's what they are. they are self-defeating. Satan exists only in a temporal manner and in the long run doesn't even exist at all because all that which is not permanent disappears.

Bub

 2005/2/28 16:55
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re: After Death

Physics has shown us that time and space are made up of the same stuff - that is, you cannot have one without the other, and the two work together to define reality.

Given that this is very likely true - we can surmise that when God created the universe, He also created time.

If God existed in the absence of creation (that is, in the absense of both space and time) - we can reason that God is 'outside of time.'

That means that discussions involving God and time are somewhat 'tricky.'

For instance - Since God is not limited by time - He is present in every moment, and in every place - with the fullness of His being. That means He doesn't look into the future to see what is coming, or into the past to see what has been - every moment in creation is 'now' to God!

If this is so - and it seems most likely to be so - discussions regarding what happens when we die become ...interesting.


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/28 17:03Profile
Sentry
Member



Joined: 2004/2/5
Posts: 119
West Monroe, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:

Satan exists only in a temporal manner and in the long run doesn't even exist at all because all that which is not permanent disappears.



Yet you say "his" greatest accomplishment is convincing people he's real. I'm amazed at how someone that doesn't exist, can accomplish anything.

As far as "winning souls to torment", Hell's punishment was created for Satan and fallen angels. He does not rule there nor will he ever. He and all fallen angels greatly fear the place...and I doubt seriously they will have their minds on anything else other than the torment that they themselves will suffer.


_________________
Mark

 2005/2/28 17:13Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:

Satan's greatest accomplishment is convincing people he is real. What greatly disturbs me about the traditional reading of heaven and hell is that the devil wins at some level. Hell is permanent, everlasting punishment and he's won souls to torment, forever according to this view.

The permanence of evil is an illusion. Murder, self regard over others, coveting your neighbor's wife etc. are sins and we describe them as evil. But you can just as easily describe them as stupid, nonfunctional behaviors that serve noone. Because that's what they are. they are self-defeating. Satan exists only in a temporal manner and in the long run doesn't even exist at all because all that which is not permanent disappears.

Bub



Where do you get this stuff?? :-?


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/28 17:21Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Where do you get this stuff??


That whirring sound you hear is George Fox spinning in his grave. This pseudo-quakerism is a disgrace to those who first bore the name.

The spirit who has confirmed this nonsense to Jake is the same spirit who has confirmed the same lies to the Hindus and Buddhists.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/2/28 18:07Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Given that this is very likely true - we can surmise that when God created the universe, He also created time.



Certainly time is an essential element of the universe as it 'allows' for activity to take place within a defined space. For example: if there were no such thing as 'time' we would say that "no two objects can occupy the same space." But because we exist in three dimensions of space and one dimension of time we say; "No two objects can occupy the same space at the same time. Time is that added variable that make many things possible that would not be possible in the material universe without it. There is coming a time when "time shall be no more." Time itself will come to an end and eternity for us 'will begin'. This is why we can merely apprehend how God "has always been." God created 'time' as much as He did all other phenomena that we experience. We see then that God is no more subservient to 'time' as He is the elements. We can only understand things within the framework of 'time'. We cannot comprehend beyond this parameter. But, we can understand WHY we don't understand the mysterious things of God. And knowing that 'why' we can rest assured that it is quite possible that God's claims are true even as we look through the lense of our human experience.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/3/1 8:22Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
There is coming a time when "time shall be no more." Time itself will come to an end and eternity for us 'will begin'.



How do you know this?

Just curious.

 2005/3/1 9:23Profile





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