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eMissionary
Member



Joined: 2005/2/23
Posts: 12
Lindale, Texas

 Healing

Recently in our community of believers, we have seen many people get sick with variuous illnesses and diseases, and a few of them dying as a result of them. This has stirred up questions within me. Scripture says we are to lay our hands on the sick and they shall be healed. Why werent these people healed when they were prayed for. I am not questioning the trueness of God word, only seeking a greater understanding of healing. Thanks.


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Aaron Lynch

 2005/2/28 10:57Profile









 Re: Healing

Hi there,
First of all, I would never try to discourage anyone from praying for the sick. Our God is Jehovah, the God that heals. I've noticed that 10 out of 10 christians die physically. So sooner or later, something is going to do us in. Does this mean that we stop praying...at a certain age? Of course not. We pray, and leave the result up to God.
However, through the power of the Holy Spirit we can be led to pray for someone. Should this occur, we can expect that God will then and there heal whom we lay hand upon. Remember, that not even Jesus Himself went around on His own. He said He did what He saw the Father do and said what He heard the Father say. When did this take place? When He was alone with the Father. Where does the Holy Spirit speak to us about what He would have us do? The same place, alone with the Father. If God tells us to go to someone and lay hands upon them and HE WILL heal them, then we can rest assured that we only need to faith the size of a grain of mustard seed because we have the throne of heaven backing us up. If we act apart from His leading, we pray on presumption. Presumption is why we see so few healed. Presumption is often lacking the wisdom that God uses when He heals.
I had a friend once who had been shot by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was shot through the neck. He lost vision in one eye, had difficulty speaking and walking. His wife and children left him. He had no where to turn, but to God. I asked him if he thought he would have gotten saved should he have not been shot, or had someone prayed and he had gotten healed. His words, "absolutely not". See, God sees the big picture. His heart is souls. He is not as concerned over the health of our flesh as we are. He wants the total man healed. That is why it's crucial that we seek the Lord before praying for anyone. If we don't hear from God, it's ok to pray. Just don't boast that God will raise them up. Let God raise them up, and then boast about God, Who alone deserves all the glory, honor and praise.

 2005/2/28 11:45
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re: Healing

Healing is one of the greatest ministrations of God, listed specifically in the ministry of Jesus and listed specifically in the Great Commission that Jesus left us with. Never think for a moment it is not!

Luke 4:18-19 - [i]"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."[/i]

Mark 16:15-18 - [i]Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."[/i]

The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it. FAITH.

I have had the priveledge of being used by the Lord to lay hands on people and see them get instantly healed. It is a wonderful ministration of the Holy Spirit, for God's love reaches far, even to the practical struggles of life. What glory it is when a one who is lame suddenly receives freedom! What heights of love and depths of peace! The compassion of the Lord is ever present today towards those who are inflicted.

Are we compassionate? Do we care for the sick and the lame?

Acts 1:1 states what Jesus BEGAN to DO and TEACH. There is both doing and teaching in the Christian faith. For one to simply talk about Jesus is one thing, but to preach and then minister like Jesus is another. [i]"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power."[/i] (1 Corinthians 4:18)

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word. Faith comes by reading the Word, meditating on Scriptures such as these, learning about the compassion of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit. Feed your faith, and then jump.

The world needs the ministry of Jesus, all of it, not just part of it.

In Christ,
-Eli

PS- One great man to check out is Smith Wigglesworth. God bless


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Eli Brayley

 2005/2/28 12:05Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re: Healing

Quote:

eMissionary wrote:
Scripture says we are to lay our hands on the sick and they shall be healed.



Acts 19:11-12 says, "Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them."

What a wonderful picture! Paul didn't even have to show up and lay on hands - he could just send along some personal item that had touched his person and the person would be healed!

Yet in 1 Timothy 5:23 we read Paul's instructions to Timothy, "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities."

It strikes me as quite interesting that Paul didn't instruct Timothy to simply "place the epistle over his stomach until God healed his "frequent infirmities."

This demonstrates that although God at one time worked miracles through Paul's hand, after a time, the miracles ceased. The reason is given elsewhere in scripture - such things were described as "signs and wonders" and not typical or normal of Christianity.

Scripture only records Christ Himself (all of the gospels) and the Apostle Paul (Acts 28:8) as ever laying hands on a person and healing them.

Mark 16:18, in speaking of those signs which would accompany believers, says that in Christ's name "they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

First of all, it doesn't suggest that every believer will manifest all these signs - we read elsewhere for instance, that not everyone is given the gift of tongues - so we shouldn't imagine this as a list that applies to all believers.

Secondly, the chapter ends saying, "they (i.e. the Apostles) went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs." - which seems to suggest that the purpose of these sign gifts was to confirm that the person was a messenger from God.

Thirdly - that portion of the gospel of Mark from which the text is taken (Mark 16:9-20) does not exist in any known manuscript prior to the eleventh century. Most scholars contend that this portion of Mark is not original - but an eleventh century addition, furthermore, that the original ending to Mark was likely lost. Never the less, it is included in most translations because failure to do so would upset a lot of people.

Given that this sort of healing became less common even in the lifetime of the Apostles, and given that not everyone receives the gift, and given that the premise that normal believers will lay hands on people is primarily based upon an eleventh century addendum to the text - I do not fret when a person isn't healed by my laying on of hands - I simply assume it is either not my gifting, that my personal authority is no longer necessary since we have the authority of scripture - which means I no longer require sign gifts, or that this particular text is a later attempt to give Mark a biblical sounding ending - and isn't the best place for me to develop my doctrine.

Dan


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Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/28 16:39Profile
Will
Member



Joined: 2003/10/1
Posts: 78
Auckland, New Zealand

 Re:

Quote:
Eli_Barnabas wrote: Healing is one of the greatest ministrations of God...


The greatest miracle you will ever witness on this earth is the miracle of regeneration. Raising a spiritually dead man to life in Christ Jesus. That to me is more amazing and more God-glorifying than raising a physically dead person back to life, or healing someone's physical sickness.

We should always be concerned more of the spiritual wellbeing of people rather than their physical well being I believe.


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Will Schmidt

 2005/2/28 17:00Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Just so we are clear the end of Mark 16 is NOT an 11th century edition. (We must study to show ourselves approved.)
Anyways - If you study the growth of the church in 3rd world nations you will that it is growing by leaps and bounds. (and quite frankly leaving America in it's dust) If you look at the style of ministry which is thriving in these nations you will see that the Biblical Gospel is being preached, accompanied by signs wonders and miracles. There are more documented cases than can be posted on the internet. These believers have not swallowed the cessasionist lie. They are living and breathing the air of New Testament Normalcy! May the American church stop using bad theology to explain away our lack of power. May we as God's people do some serious heart searching and weeping, instead of using obscure and out of context scriptures to neuter the Gospel. We have studied, and studied (and in some cases done well), but we have done little searching of our hearts. We must seek God's face and see His power fall on His church again. When the period was dotted in the Book of Revelation - or when the canon was completed and recognized - God did not have His great name - Jehovah Roppha - legally changed! He is still a healer today! Beloved brothers and sisters, may the excuses cease, and may the power fall again! AMEN!
-Jeff


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Jeff

 2005/2/28 20:00Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Quote:

FireinmyBones1 wrote:
Just so we are clear the end of Mark 16 is NOT an 11th century edition. (We must study to show ourselves approved.) -Jeff



Thanks for the correction Jeff. I didn’t have my copy of Metzger with me.

The end of Mark 16 is NOT an 11th century addition - though it is extremely doubtful that it is part of the original gospel. The text is certainly absent from the oldest Greek manuscripts (01, 03), and only shows up in various flavors and whatnot earlier - but wasn't formalized until around the eleventh century. Many of the earlier manuscripts that -do- include the passage do so while denoting it as spurious (illegitimate.)

The transition between verse 8 and 9 is more than awkward. The other women with Mary are no longer there; Mary is mentioned again for no reason; the passage begins in a way that is normally reserved for introducing new narratives - which makes little sense when this is supposed to be a continuation. Likewise, Mark suddenly waxes eloquent using more than a few words that are alien to his style and vocabulary - even using an expression for disciples that is novel and unique to the whole NT! It is not -unreasonable- to question the authenticity of this particular passage.

That being said - the text is mentioned as early as the first half of the second century (in a variant form), so wherever it came from - it had been around for a while, and wherever the text came from - it was likely from some other writing that was regarded as "scripture" at the time.

Either way, my point was not to discuss whether this text is original or not - I personally have serious doubts about its authenticity, and that was my point - I would be weary of hanging any cherished belief that issues solely from that particular portion of scripture.


On another note:

I am not convinced that any gift has ceased.

I should like to point out too, that it is a huge mistake to pursue Christ intellectually - that is, in the absence of a relationship, and in the absence of the Spirit.

The pendulum however, can swing the other way - so that a person is dismissive of, and hostile towards any academic pursuit of God's truth.

Satan doesn't care which extreme you run amok in - he wins both ways.

Dan


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Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/1 0:40Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Brother Dann,
I appreciate your response. I agree with you wholeheartedly that any cherished beliefs should not hinge solely upon the end of Mark 16. I also agree with you that as believers we need to be strong both in mind and in spirit. We must study to show ourselves approved, yet we must also have a dynamic and experiential relationship with Jesus Christ in the Spirit. I apologize if my initial post sounded harsh or as if I was coming down on you. I must admit, cessationism (or sometimes what I presume to be) gets me worked up. I probably posted before allowing my spirit to cool down a bit. Forgive me brother if I sounded angry. I agree with most of what your last post said wholeheartedly (with the exception of the Mark 16 controversy). May you be blessed abundantly!
-Jeff


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Jeff

 2005/3/1 12:29Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Healing

If you want to see how this has been thrashed out do a search on the forums. SOme interesting stuff.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/3/1 12:37Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Jeff: No need to worry. I came across a little strident - something I could have avoided had my heart been set on others more than on my own opinion - so I consider the blame, if any, my own.

Dan


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Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/1 13:02Profile





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