SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Sermons | About

Featured Audio Sermon
Christ Magnified In Our Bodies by Leonard Ravenhill


Login

Nickname

Password


Main Menu
· Home
· About Us
· Audio Sermons
    by Speaker
    by Topic
    by Scripture
    by Podcast
· Text Sermons
    Christian Books
    Online Bibles
· Video Sermons
· Vintage Images
· Discussion Forum
· Help Support
· Contact Us


Share SI with others - Add a website link or image banner on your website or blog.

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : My spirit shall not always strive with man

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: My spirit shall not always strive with man

Quote:
Did Adam and eve have self-consciousness before eating of the fruit??

Were Adam and eve controlled by a voice of reason before eating the fruit? Proudpapa




It seems incomprehensible to me that Adam and Eve did not have self-consciousness. Adam said “bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh” he could not have spoken thus unless he had been aware of himself. Of course one could say that this is just physical awareness, yet he didn’t say “wow and naked too”. The knowledge of good and evil did produce an awareness that was not present before yet even in this regard it cannot be awareness simply of the fact of nakedness, but an implication inherent in nakedness. Their view of one another changed. What had previously been pure and undefiled in understanding became something to hide from each other. None of this is self-consciousness it is a consciousness of another’s condition giving rise to an awareness of ones own condition. This is self-awareness not self-consciousness. Self-consciousness at this time of innocence would have been high reason, after the fall it became base awareness.


I think that Adam and Eve would have been self-controlled in a mind of obedience and innocence. The organ of reason is the mind of the soul. I can’t see any controlling going on between them or between them and God Himself. They were equipped to function perfectly, which must have included a perfect ability to exercise self-control as well. When Eve became deceived she lost that ability temporarily but Adam never lost his at all. His action of listening to Eve and eating was his choice and represented perfect self control, albeit disobedient to God’ commandment.

 2012/11/12 11:57
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 333


 Re:


HI Croref

Croref wrote ///No! The ME is my SOUL. MY SOUL is who I am.///

The Soul is your life,

The Me is the Flesh, carnal Mind, the voice of reason, The voice that is all ways reasoning between the knowledge of good and evil.

Men loose their Carnal mind all the time the soul remains the same.
______________________________________

Then why are we given to purify our soul??

 2012/11/12 12:34Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 1802


 Re:Croref

Croref wrote ///Then why are we given to purify our soul??///


How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


What is the god little g that rules the unsaved man?

 2012/11/12 13:27Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 333


 Re:


Read 1peter !:22. Lets go from there, OK?

 2012/11/12 13:49Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 1802


 Re: amrkelly

Hi amrkelly

When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

The voice of reason took control it now had the ability to judge for its self right from wrong to be a god to its own soul,

how can you judge if you do not understand right from wrong ??

Jesus says I judge no one my father does that for me but you judge after the (Sarx) (voice of reason)

jn ch 8
15 Ye judge after the flesh;(sarx) I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.








 2012/11/12 13:49Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 1802


 Re: Croref

Croref wrote ///Read 1peter !:22. Lets go from there, OK?///

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

v 23 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

we could start an entire new thread on the Logos

 2012/11/12 13:54Profile









 Re: My spirit shall not always strive with man

Quote:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 




What is the god little g that rules the unsaved man? proudpapa




Having one’s conscience cleansed from dead works on a personal level must point to the moment we first believed. Apart from the context of Hebrews chapter nine, which is a reference to the dead works of the Law, which could not cleanse the conscience at all, the experience of being cleansed in our conscience is the only personal basis we have to assert that this Scripture is true. The business of the on going problem of dead works is dealt with by repenting of them and acknowledging that by our own works we cannot please God. If we believed that we would surly seek to understand how it is possible to please God apart from believing in His Son! How can we please God? Whether we attempt to do this naturally or spiritually will be the basis of what amounts to a dead work. Is it an effort or is it a rest?


Quote:
The voice of reason took control it now had the ability to judge for its self right from wrong to be a god to its own soul, 

how can you judge if you do not understand right from wrong ??

Jesus says I judge no one my father does that for me but you judge after the (Sarx) (voice of reason) proudpapa




I think the term “judge” and “reason” are being confused a little. Jesus said, “I came not to judge” and “you judge after the flesh”. If “judge” in this verse was interchangeable with reason it would amount to saying “I came not to reason” and “you judge with reason”. It may be that put this way suits your understanding because after all you are speaking about the organ of reason and not the validity of the judgment arising from the organ (mind). The part following on appears to support this somewhat “But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.” However one has to take the statement of The Lord as true. If Jesus had judged, which of necessity would have to have involved His understanding mind, it would be true regardless. The organ of His mind would in this circumstance have been the vehicle for all that which arises between The Father and The Son. The mind is simply a vehicle not an originator of what is good or evil. In short Jesus may have been saying “you don’t have the ability to judge properly, I do”.

The voice of reason that you keep referring to is beginning to sound like an alien. Adam and Eve didn’t reason or judge that they were naked they simply knew it. One moment they didn’t the next they did. Everything that follows on from there no doubt involves the mind and reason, but it doesn’t require a judgment it demanded a response. Covering themselves was a response to a perceived condition that did not change the fact of nakedness rather it produced the knowledge of it. I really do wish you would state what it is you believe brother and spell it out so that I can at least attempt to make sense of it. I feel like this emphasis on Sarx theology is eluding me somewhat.

 2012/11/12 14:31
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 1802


 Re:

Hi amrkelly

RE:///Is it an effort or is it a rest?///

Canaan is a rest

Hebrews 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his


imagine with me an amish buggy crossing the interstate highway tons of vehicles the horse has ceased from being controled by his own voice of reason and rest in the fact that the master will lead him safely.

 2012/11/12 14:45Profile









 Re: My spirit shall not always strive with man

Quote:
Hi amrkelly 

RE:///Is it an effort or is it a rest?/// 

Canaan is a rest

Hebrews 4:10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his


imagine with me an amish buggy crossing the interstate highway tons of vehicles the horse has ceased from being controled by his own voice of reason and rest in the fact that the master will lead him safely. proudpapa




The Scripture which immediately came to mind when I read your example was Matthew 11:29-30 “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart; and ye shall find rest to your souls; for my yoke is easy, and my burden is light”.


There is a rest from dead works that equates to trying to justify ourselves before God, for which remedy we have Christ crucified for sin. And has to do with our conscience. After all if our conscience did not find rest how would we believe in the efficacy of Christ shed blood. Then there is a rest for our soul’s that does not involve inactivity but rather walking. The walking is a rest as well as the believing. The one, believing, is into Christ; the walking is bonded to Christ as servants. One makes us fit for heaven and presents us to The Father Holy and blameless, even as He [Christ] is holy and blameless. The other presents us to Christ as judge and King and has to do with good works [our walk].


I like the analogy of the Amish buggy it’s a pleasing picture and appears to have wisdom. Yet I cannot see it as a true picture of our reasonable service in obedience to Christ. For one thing we are not asked to yield up our minds in this way, we are told that we have the mind of Christ and to be also renewed in our minds in order that we might prove that perfect and acceptable will of God. In short I believe the saint is asked to submit but to think as well. This seems a little picky I realise that, but yet somehow the idea of becoming passive repels me. It is completely contrary to everything I have experienced in The Lord. I cannot recall a single instance in this walk where obedience took on the form of passive obedience. It was always a willing obedience or none. In fact it has always had the character of participation with God and not imposition. If I had to give up my mind in order to serve God I do believe that I would walk away and decline. This is speaking foolishly and I cannot walk away, but the idea of not participating in a reasonable mind of obedience is anathema to me. As a matter of fact the parable of the talents where The Master “goes on a long journey” as a contrast with your picture would equate to the Master of the Buggy doing a runner and abandoning the horse to its own devices LOL.


Of course it seems likely that we know the same reality when it comes down to it otherwise we would not be brethren. Perhaps the distinctions in all of this lies in an understanding of the character and extent of salvation itself, by which I mean what does it mean to be saved? 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

 2012/11/12 15:39
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 333


 Re:

by proudpapa on 2012/11/12 10:54:26

Croref wrote ///Read 1peter !:22. Lets go from there, OK?///

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

v 23 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

we could start an entire new thread on the Logos
_______________________________________

Why? It is not quite clear that it is something we do by the "power" of our new birth?

 2012/11/12 16:10Profile





©2002-2014 SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons | Google+
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival. | Privacy Policy