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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: jimp

Hi Jimp

your inclusion of "we have the same problem today." made it all make perfect sence to me, It actually may be one of the deepest insights That I have read on these forums,

The more I meditate on what you wrote the more insightful I realize it is!

 2012/11/5 23:43Profile









 Re: the first sin

Quote:
hi, of course i was talking about before the fall. all the trees were available except one. my sermon on this preaches real good.loljimp
choose religion or choose Jesus...jimp



Yes I too intended to speak about Adam before the fall. Before the fall Adam was innocent not stupid or ignorant. Neither was he deceived. Neither did he need religion. He walked with God. Who needs religion if you can walk with God? It is easy to say that the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil meant “religion” and that The Tree of Life meant “Jesus” but there is no actual Scriptural evidence for this is there? It just an idea presented by some one or other at some time or other. Though I have no doubt that it “preaches real good”. I don’t mean this to be disrespectful Jim I just speak plainly if I can. I think that at your age and years in The Lord, speaking plainly won’t cause a problem. Today Jim eternal life is in Christ Jesus. But in the garden it was right on a tree. Not a euphemism for the “cross”, but a tree. Just as Eternal life can be found on a tree in Revelations in the New Heavens and the New Earth. Whilst Jesus (The Lamb) will be found in the New Jerusalem with The Father. None of these things are euphemistically intended or else we don’t have a faith at all, but a mystery that cannot be understood. Yet the Scriptures are given us for correction, reproof and training in righteousness.

 2012/11/6 0:12
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE:///Before the fall Adam was innocent not stupid or ignorant///

was he controled by a voice of reason "the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences."??



 2012/11/6 0:52Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, if you eat of this tree you will be as God.(religion) he ate after his wife ate.so stupid that it put the whole human race under bondage. the ground was cursed and produced thorns.Jesus took that curse when He bled from the crown of thorns on the cross etc.jimp we who believe now have eternal life because of Jesus and his finished work.

 2012/11/6 2:31Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi croft,,,,, in adam all died ,,when adam sin seperated him god ,( he who comits sin is a slave to sin ,,,,, he was sperated from the spiritual life of god and became spirtual dead in sin and recieved the death penatily in the flesh ,,,as we do becase we were in him in his loins

in contrased ,,,us now being in the seconed adam and reciveing resarection life and the gift of righeoeness

in christ all will be made alive



blessings


brother andrew most of that s my thoughts ,,wile i was typing certaint things actualy came to me


i asked questions in my mind a few years ago,,and felt that satans fall was well known to adam and all the angels

and it was seen by them as a weak punishemnt from god

but just yesataday i relised that the false thoughts conjered up in there minds about god not being a harsh punisher ,,was the begining of the sin ,,and the reason that this pure creation adam and eve was able to be led in to pride ,and want the forbiden knowlage


and i think this is a major problem with men today ,,there fasle ideas about gods righeous judgments and serverity ,cause them to twist god in there minds change the atributes of god ,,this gives birth to the sin of idolarty

just prior to the fall due to a false view of god which was compouned by not repenting of false thought about ,,this happend to adam and eve ,and alowed them to be tempted an led astray by the devil ,,who would have previosly had know power to effect them


now that just how im seeing it .i dont expect others to see it that way

can i say tho that wile i was typing this post ,i only just relised that the propblem led to idolarty

strange i didnt know this 1 hour ago


when we worship god with a false view of gods atrabutes we a worshiping a god we are recreating in our own imgaination


this happened in the begginning and is happening right now as a reflection or shadow of what went on in the garden

and it leds to fogy perception and spiritual deception ,and a sickening hunger for forbiden knowlage of all variations

andrews thanks for asking the questions yestaday andrew

i feel the holy spirt has givern me a litle clarity ,or an expilnation


iv allways wonder how adam and eve could be led into evil
wile they did not have a flesh nature for satan to tempt them through


blessings everyone in jesus mighty name

 2012/11/6 3:37Profile









 Re: the first sin

Quote:
……and i think this is a major problem with men today ,,there false ideas about God’ righteous judgments and severity ,cause them to twist God in there minds change the attributes of God ,,this gives birth to the sin of idolatry. Gary



Your comment here Gary is an interesting one because in a very real sense Idolatry is the great sin of all time. By it’s very meaning, (and there are many forms of meanings regarding idolatry), it is a denial of God Himself. There are many willful individuals named in the bible and most of time this willfulness is in connection with idolatry. Right there at the foot of Sinai the golden calf is an astonishing thing when you consider what the Hebrews witnessed in order to get there. Many of the Kings of Israel and Judah sinned in this way as well. Satan led on and was led on by those who adored him and led to pride and a direct desire to “be like God”. In having such a desire he blasphemed God but eventually he conceived it formerly and then he was caste down. In the garden of Eden, as Jim said, this temptation was made (and Eve believed it). Adam however didn’t believe it because had he done so he would have necessarily been deceived as well. But following this logic regarding idolatry being the “great sin” we would have to ask in what sense was Adam’ sin also idolatrous?

It would be wrong to suggest that I have any personal revelation on this subject. Nevertheless I am fully persuaded that Adam sinned for one reason only. He took regard to his wife. What this means can only be understood in the light of something the apostle Paul said “know you not, that he who loves his wife loves himself”. Perhaps your observation or thought about Adam’ perception of God’ mercy in allowing Satan to continue may be off track in the detail, but God did show mercy when He judged Adam’ sin. Both the serpent, as a creature lending itself to Satan’ purposes, was physically judged to the extent that it is thereafter without limbs or means of flight; as was Satan judged further because it is at this time that the means of dealing with him were fully revealed (the bruised heal and the crushed head). Finally Eve was physically judged as well not only in an increase in childbirth but in her emotional constitution as well. I have always intuitively believed that it has suited Satan’ purposes to make Eve the scape goat for Adam’ sin. Apart from the consequences this has had on women over the ages, it has obscured the fact that God held Adam himself accountable in the end for his sin (sin is reckoned through Adam) yet in judging Adam, God shows considerable mercy. I don’t say that a cursed earth and eating from the sweat of hard labor is a trivial thing. But Adam by taking regard to his wife was a "taking regard to himself". In doing this he disobeyed God and made his own desire more important than obedience to God.

In contrast Jesus denied Himself completely and thereby kept Himself in obedience. It is obedience that made the sacrifice of His body on the cross, acceptable to God. Had Jesus just once put any natural and reasonable desire before the vision and joy which was set before Him His sacrifice would have been rejected, we would yet be lost and Satan would not have been defeated once and for all time. For a more formal presentation of this teaching concerning the real meaning of Adam’ sin you would have to find it in Watchman Nee’ ministry. Off hand I don’t know where but I read it 30 years ago and have seen it played out ever since. We are told that having believed in Jesus we have been given the gift of eternal life, by grace without works. This is of course true. But we forget that following Jesus comes after belief in Jesus and this following requires that we deny ourselves and take up our own cross in life. If we want to really please God we not only have to believe in His only begotten Son, but we will have to deny ourselves also. The one to eternal life, the other to a part in the glory of the Kingdom of His beloved Son.

 2012/11/6 5:33
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by amrkelly on 2012/11/5 20:25:37

Quote:
hi, it is my weird belief that adams sin was so severe because he not only ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil; but rejected the tree of life(Jesus).jimp we have the same problem today. Jimp



If The Tree of Life was the same in meaning as God’s own eternal life (as most believe that it was) then Adam certainly had an opportunity to possess the same life as God possesses. However given that Adam was innocent for most of the time he had access to The Tree of Life it seems unlikely that his not eating of that fruit was an act of rejection.


Re:jimp

hi, it is my weird belief that adams sin was so severe because he not only ate of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil; but rejected the tree of life(Jesus).jimp we have the same problem today.


Why take it that far?? How 'bout it was just simple 'neglect'?? Did Adam have a "pressing need" that he should be drawn to it??

Question: Why does one come to Christ??

 2012/11/6 8:08Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

was Adam controled by a voice of reason "the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences."??

 2012/11/6 8:14Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:


by brothagary on 2012/11/6 0:37:36

hi croft,,,,, in adam all died ,,when adam sin seperated him god ,( he who comits sin is a slave to sin ,,,,, he was sperated from the spiritual life of god and became spirtual dead in sin and recieved the death penatily in the flesh ,,,as we do becase we were in him in his loins

in contrased ,,,us now being in the seconed adam and reciveing resarection life and the gift of righeoeness

in christ all will be made alive




Good. So we can rightly say that death meant being separated from God, correct?

 2012/11/6 8:15Profile
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by proudpapa on 2012/11/6 5:14:26

was Adam controled by a voice of reason "the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences."??




Who are you addressing??

 2012/11/6 8:17Profile





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