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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God does not go against the will of man.

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Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 God does not go against the will of man.

I don't believe we can understand Jesus Christ without first understanding the creation of man. That said I believe this not simply because of what we are given of Jesus Christ but also of Adam __thus my OP:

God does not go against the will of man.

I make that a statement because in the beginning was it proven to be the case __ even as far back as what we read of Lucifer__ the purpose of whose existence is not yet exhausted.

Note: Though He may sometimes make man willing to be willing, God never forces man to obey.

Our Bible says this: "A man's heart devises his way: but the LORD directs his steps." Proverbs 16:9 (KJV)

Might we see that God uses man's will [good or bad] for His purposes and not of God decreeing this or that thus making man to be a puppet He created to bring about His ultimate intention set in Himself? What was God's ultimate intention from the beginning that if this is true, as I believe it is, can only be accomplished by "love"?

 2012/11/2 7:51Profile









 Re: God does not go against the will of man.

I disagree with the premise of this.

You are basically saying that the course of history has been set by the will of man, and God has to constantly adjust in order to accomplish His will without violating the will of men. If this is the case the question must be asked: who is the read God? Man or God?

Thats not the God the Bible portrays.

Who is man that God needs to adjust His will and His plan around us? That is incredibly arrogant for a man to even think that way.

And it's interesting that we are told by the mods and others to avoid a discussion about Calvinism vs Arminianism... but it only seems to apply when the thread is started by someone who holds to the Reformed point of view. If it's a thread that attacks Calvinism you post all day long and nothing is ever said. But if something is posted from a Calvinist point of view... "oh, you cant do that!"

Not whining, just making an observation.

Krispy

 2012/11/2 9:46
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 Re:

by KrispyKrittr on 2012/11/2 6:46:51

I disagree with the premise of this.

You are basically saying that the course of history has been set by the will of man,




Is this not what was started by Adam __ and that God planned for such an eventuality?

Quote:
and God has to constantly adjust in order to accomplish His will without violating the will of men. If this is the case the question must be asked: who is the read God? Man or God?



I did not say God's will was determined by man's will? Read the OP again.

 2012/11/2 10:56Profile









 Re:

I dont know... you've done a good job of being vague enough so that someone can read this and take it in two different directions. :-)

Krispy

 2012/11/2 11:03
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 Re:

by KrispyKrittr on 2012/11/2 8:03:15

I dont know... you've done a good job of being vague enough so that someone can read this and take it in two different directions. :-)




How so?? Unless God made man a robot, He had to use man's freewill to bring about His purposes. Does not the scripture I submitted say as much, i.e., "man devises his way but God directs his steps"? Try to see it as being what God "wills" despite man's will and something He needs not overrule but simply uses..

Who said this: "you meant it for evil but God for good"

 2012/11/2 11:14Profile
stevet83
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Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re: God does not go against the will of man.

"I don't believe we can understand Jesus Christ without first understanding the creation of man. That said I believe this not simply because of what we are given of Jesus Christ but also of Adam __thus my Op"
I'm a little confused...Understanding the creation of man is not a prerequisite to understanding Jesus Christ. I do agree we can not understand the nature of our salvation in Christ without understanding the nature of our lostness in Adam

 2012/11/2 11:27Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by stevet83 on 2012/11/2 8:27:37

"I don't believe we can understand Jesus Christ without first understanding the creation of man. That said I believe this not simply because of what we are given of Jesus Christ but also of Adam __thus my Op"
I'm a little confused...Understanding the creation of man is not a prerequisite to understanding Jesus Christ. I do agree we can not understand the nature of our salvation in Christ without understanding the nature of our lostness in Adam




Why not consider what was purposed by God in His forming Adam that Adam did not accomplish and for which Jesus is called the "second Adam"?

 2012/11/2 11:35Profile
stevet83
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Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

Can u phrase the question differently, still not getting it. Thanks

 2012/11/2 13:14Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:



You mean this, Steve?

"Why not consider what was purposed by God in His forming Adam that Adam did not accomplish and for which Jesus is called the "second Adam"?"

What is unclear?

If anyone can see themselves clear of the cross being simply for salvation from hell to see God had something in mind set in Himself, in mankind, that mankind was to be the full expression of Himself in human flesh, then we might understand more the reason for the cross to be the restoration of His Divine purpose.

 2012/11/2 14:01Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, your understanding of God has good points and errors as does everyones. in 2 posts after being encouraged to go witness;you broughtforth the same statement"why go unless you have the annointing"Jesus is the only annointed one. the Holy Spirit shows up and brings forth that annointing when ever we go and preach Jesus.i have seen hundreds saved and their lives changed in personal witness.the Holy Spirit will come on the scene and change minds and hearts.paul was on his way to persecute christians and was overwhelmed by God without knowing who overwhelmed him."who art thou,Lord"?we all are single plane thinkers,but God sees the end from the beginning.our will must be reversed in order to be saved.we all gather around the same tree adam ate of and gorge at the tree of religion while we reject the tree of Life until the Holy Spirit changes us.jimp

 2012/11/2 14:35Profile





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