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 Re:

Quote:
hi, in no way have i ever on this site accused anyone of sinning.Jesus took away our sins on the cross. if you love Him you will keep His commandments.it is the goodness of God that brings salvation.if we take a look at the history of His people who made it a habit of sinning against Him.it is always His deliverance through judgement



Dear Brother and Sisters,

I want to apologize for the lack of charity in my first post in this thread. Brother Alan clearly has given us a warning and exhortation from Scriptures that I feel was good for myself to read. I agree that Jesus Christ saves us from our sins and transforms us from sinners to saints. But we still sin and that is why 1 John 1:9 says for us to confess our sins, and James tells us to purify your hands sinners! He is speaking to those who are born-again. So I believe there is always a need to confess our sins and stay in close communion with our Lord.

I also believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and that His death and blood bought men back to God. Our only true surety even above doing good works and allow our character to conform to His is for us to have a hope and trust in His blood and death on our behalf and to trust in it. Yet if that trust and hope does not work in us any change of life, desires, character toward the image of Christ it might be a false hope. A true hope in the atonement of Christ will make us daily to see how sinful we are yet give us hope to see how also he is cleansing us and making us more holy, calling us saints! We need both aspects and views.

I cannot save myself by good works or by choosing to die to self daily. But if I am to be save I must do these things. One comes from a moral desire to save one's self. The other comes from a response to saving grace which exhibits the soul has received such grace.


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 2012/10/31 12:53Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

makrotumia wrote:

Quote:
Giving all diligence to add to our faith, keeping ourselves in the love of God, praying in the Holy Spirit and making every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him will produce genuine eternal security.



Well said. That is to how to overcome and have full assurance of our salvation. If you are abiding in Christ, dying to self daily, mortifying the deeds of the flesh, you can have 100 percent assurance that you are one of His and rejoice that your name is written in heaven.

Again, my concern with the OP is that there may be some true believers here who may come under a false fear which is not from God. But I guess if the shoe fits wear it right?

And again, while there are so many scriptures which speak of being watchful and walking in holy fear, there are just as many that speak of rejoicing in the Lord and praising him for His salvation in our lives.

Regarding true believers 1John4:17-19 says, "17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us."

As I have studied a little bit of church history I have noticed an interesting trend among those whom God has used mightily. Most if not all have seemed to have this deep, abiding, full assurance of their salvation as a powerful anchor and motivation for what they have done in the cause of the kingdom of God.

What I would probably disagree with jimp on here is regarding the need to warn the unsaved of God's spiritual and eternal judgment. God's Word seems crystal clear that there is an important place for those types of warnings to blatant, non-churched sinners as well as to deceived church-going hypocrites.


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Oracio

 2012/10/31 13:53Profile
brothagary
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Posts: 1863


 Re:

also oraco in reality these warnings alpy to gods elect whom he may be drawing by his spirit towards the new birth ,,,gods rod

blessings

 2012/10/31 15:18Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i warn the sinner of the wrath to come;eternal damnation being the most important problem.if you are dead to self and alive inChrist, what is judgement going to do for you?make do works so you can be under judgement.law is the leven that takes away grace.i choose to live resting in Gods grace.jimp

 2012/10/31 15:35Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

amen brothagary, agreed.

jimp, my apologies if I have misunderstood you on that issue.


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Oracio

 2012/10/31 15:59Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,one more thing before i stop on this subject...is Jesus the redeemer of your soul or not? is your security in what He has done or in your ability to live up to some standard?did He not promise that He was able to keep that which was comitted...?are you then saying that your salvation rests in your hands or His?who makes intercession for you daily before the Father?who is your faith in?what is your faith in?mine is in Jesus plus nothing.if i sin i confess it for He is my advocate. we live under a covenant. that is something our culture does not understand at all.Jesus cut the covenant for God and man.when the Father looks at us He sees Jesus,because of the covenant.study covenant instead of judgement and your life will be better and full of joy unspeakable and full of glory.jimp

 2012/10/31 18:33Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

another thought came to mind on this subject. There is clearly a place for true believers to work out their salvation with fear and trembling-Philippians 2:12.

I have heard it explained that God uses certain warnings to "keep" His saints on the straight and narrow. In other words, one of the means by which God preserves His elect is through warning them of the possibility of apostasy. And I can see how effective that is as I have seen how it has kept me in check sometimes to consider such a thought. I definitely don't want to be found a hypocrite on Judgment Day. At the same time I have full assurance based upon the blood of Christ shed on Calvary for my sins.

So bottom line for me is that scripture teaches a balance in such matters of faith and conduct. God is sovereign and all-wise and knows what need to hear and understand about Him, ourselves, and the world around us.


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Oracio

 2012/10/31 19:23Profile









 Re:

Jimp - just to say, I always love your contributions here. They are like little nuggets of grace.

 2012/10/31 20:41
stevet83
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Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

Oracio,
That is an Interesting thought...
But a christian life lived apart from apostasy is a result of true Life in the Christian. A warning of "thou shalt not" to a Christian is insufficient to keep the Christian from doing it. I'm not supposed to lie but I find myself at times doing it. One who professes faith but does not posses it will inevitably "fall away"

I guess it comes to, can a Christian simply choose to not be one?

Your thoughts?

 2012/10/31 22:24Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

stevet83, I guess you could say I've been on both sides of the eternal security issue throughout my Christian walk. Since there seem to be good scriptures for both views I'm still not completely sure about it, though I tend to lean more heavily toward the perseverance of the saints.

I would agree that one who professes faith but does not posses it will inevitably "fall away", but I would also add, unless they are awakened and quickened to true conversion by the Holy Ghost.


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Oracio

 2012/10/31 23:22Profile





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