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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Were the disciples born again before or after Pentecost?

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Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

"Since we have determined that no one was 'in Christ' (except God) prior to His ascension, how did the believers get 'into' Christ?"


Bac acha Approved!!


Jesus was glorified when He appeared to them when He breathed on them per Jn 20:22. That understanding violates nothing and supports that fact He was glorified. To believe the traditional version is to leave out that fact for their purpose of advancing a doctrinal persuasion that is incomplete. John 20:22 should also answer your question as to how the Disciples got baptized "into" Jesus__that by being born again as they then were. Same Spirit-same Life.

 2012/10/26 13:30Profile
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 Re:

by krautfrau on 2012/10/26 9:53:06

Croref

Quote: I believe that "measure of faith" could have been that which produced in one a hope of redemption as in, "I know my redeemer lives" . . Job. Whatta ya think?
2012/10/26 7:23End Quote

"Not sure about that. Job was a holy man ie reached stage three but went through the severe testing you get at that stage. He knew his Redeemer but those who have not just come to Him do not know Him as Redeemer.

The breath Jesus breathed is the awakening or spiritual rebirth."

How does one give birth [awaken to] when there has been no conception?

 2012/10/26 13:42Profile









 Re:

Well, my Aussie bro, if you be Loomie. I be Loomie. Yes, I believe those who saw tbe vision of tbe cross n N. Korea were born again and were with Jesus when they were executed. If God is appearing to tbe Moslens in dreams and visions of Jesus. And they are being saved. Who are we to say God is not saving the N. Koreans though a revelation if tbe cross. It certainly worked for the thief who saw Jesus hanging on the cross.

Mark how was Abraham saved. I just read in Romans that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Yet we are not told how or by what means he believed in God. We are not told how God spoke to him. But however God spoke to him it was enough to bring to saving faith and be made righteous in God's eight.

Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 tbe wind blows where it will. You hear its sound. But you cannot tell where it is coming from Ir where it is going. So us everyone born of the Spirit. We cannot predict nor contain. tbe sovereign activity of tbe Spirit. We cannot constrain God and say he must act in this way.

We operate in a western mindset thinking God is constrained to operate in a certain way to convert people. But as tbe scriptures say. Our thoughts are not his thoughts. And our ways are not his ways. For as the heavens are higher than tbe earth. So are God's ways and thoughts higher than our ways and thoughts.

Bottom line. God can bring anybody he wants in any way he wants to saving faith and life in Jesus.

Just my thoughts.

Blaine aka Bearmaster.

 2012/10/26 13:42
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 Re:

by rnieman on 2012/10/26 9:38:12

Hi Phillip you spoke to Peter before and after pentecost.

I would say before pentecost Peter was saved, after pentecost Peter was endowed with power from on high, thus in his first message preached several thousand were saved, and several other accounts after that concerning Peter show this demonstration of the Spirit and power.


Bless you,

Russ

Hi Russ! Amen Brother!

 2012/10/26 13:43Profile
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 Re:

I have heard stories of prisoners in North Korea being led away to execution who have never heard the gospel but were shown an image of the Cross sewn into scrap fabric...and the sight of this apparently was enough to awaken them to bring them to faith as they were being led away. The former prisoner who told me this, believes sincerely that those young men were born again as they climbed the steps to the execution chamber, and that they would be with the Lord when they died.

Mark
______


In the finality of it all, God alone knows. We, more privileged, need to be about learning Him as Father and Jesus Christ whom He has sent, eh?

 2012/10/26 13:46Profile
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 Re:

by Christinyou on 2012/10/26 9:06:11

"Receive ye the Holy Spirit", is a promise of what would happen at Pentecost.
_________________

It was no promise at all. Further more "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" happened before Pentecost.Jn 20:22.

Peter here reminding the Disciples of the commandment of Jesus with regards to His Baptism after himself having "Received the Holy Spirit":

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me." Acts 1:4 (KJV) I.e., The "coming upon" for power to function as Jesus functioned.

What do we do with that, Christinyou, ignore it?

 2012/10/26 13:55Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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 Re:

Hi Coref,

Quote:
Bac acha Approved!!


Jesus was glorified when He appeared to them when He breathed on them per Jn 20:22. That understanding violates nothing and supports that fact He was glorified. To believe the traditional version is to leave out that fact for their purpose of advancing a doctrinal persuasion that is incomplete. John 20:22 should also answer your question as to how the Disciples got baptized "into" Jesus__that by being born again as they then were. Same Spirit-same Life.



So you are saying that John 20:22 was the moment they were baptized by one Spirit into one body?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/10/26 14:32Profile
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 Re:

by RobertW on 2012/10/26 11:32:03

Hi Coref,

Quote:
Bac acha Approved!!


Jesus was glorified when He appeared to them when He breathed on them per Jn 20:22. That understanding violates nothing and supports that fact He was glorified. To believe the traditional version is to leave out that fact for their purpose of advancing a doctrinal persuasion that is incomplete. John 20:22 should also answer your question as to how the Disciples got baptized "into" Jesus__that by being born again as they then were. Same Spirit-same Life.



So you are saying that John 20:22 was the moment they were baptized by one Spirit into one body?
________________________

Isn't that what we call being, "born again"? If we are correct in that then it only follows we become part of the Body of Christ __and this holds true that: ". . . . Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". Romans 8:9 (KJV)


JTB declared Jesus to be the Baptizer of the Holy Ghost. Baptism is general is an experience the one being baptized can speak when he is. If water baptism, he gets wet. When did Jesus ever baptize anyone while on Earth that they experienced anything they might speak of as being such?? Answer__never.

 2012/10/26 14:40Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

rnieman wrote: Quote, "Hi Phillip you spoke to Peter before and after pentecost.:

Not personally, but yes, through the the Word of God by the Holy Spirit.

Mt 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mt 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
Mt 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

After that the Holy Spirit filled Peter on the day of Pentecost. Absolutely no denial.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Before the Comforter came at Pentecost Peter spoke of the twelve and specifically of Judas, after Pentecost lifting up his voice spoke bodly of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit spoken of in Joel, "God pouring out His Spirit on men".

Not speaking to Peter in person but knowing him well by the Word and The Holy Spirit.

Big difference before and after Pentecost, Peter heading to reproof from Paul, which brought Peter even closer to the truth by Paul confronting Peter to his face.

In Christ: In the Holy Spirit promised at Pentecost and even in the Father, but also them in me.

Phillip




_________________
Phillip

 2012/10/26 15:02Profile









 Re: Loomie

Hi brother Blaine, I think we are both Loonie or as your keyboard prefers to say, "loomie"...lol. You obviously have pork sausage fingers like me brother:)

Blaine, you have captured the essence of my original post. How is it that anyone is born again? That is why I added the anecdote about the North Koreans, and of course I was not suggesting that we abandon our quest of learning Christ, in fact if we are indeed born again, how can we abandon Him, where else can we go, in whom else is found this Life???

I think this discussion also serves to show how we can become so easily caught up in doctrinal discussion regarding salvation/new birth, when the Holy Spirit Himself is the only He who can make this so in any of us, and the only one who can bear witness with us, that we are indeed born again, irrespective of how much we think we understand the doctrine of the new birth.

I wouldn't be surprised if far many more, simple, unlearned pagans are being born again in remote areas of the world, compared to the gospel soaked countries of the west filled with religiously and biblically learned individuals:) It is the entire work of the Holy Spirit in an individual, not an understanding of the nitty gritty of the process of being born again...and dare I say that applies equally to Muslims, North Koreans and North Americans.

The wind blows where it wills!!!

In Him,
Mark

 2012/10/26 15:02





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