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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Fasting and contemporary translations.

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Fasting and contemporary translations.

Matthew 17:21

King James Version (KJV)
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Matthew 17:21 (NIV)
21.. ???


Mark 9:29
King James Version (KJV)
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and (fasting.)

Mark 9:29 (NIV)
29 He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

1 Corinthians 7:5 (KJV)
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to (fasting) and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

1 Corinthians 7:5 (NIV)
5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Disturbing beliefs of the modern theologicaly intelectual faithless Cessationist Scribes

the accuracy of the NIV by kenneth L. Barker (1996 baker books) p.57
/// Where is the verse in the NIV?? It is the footnote. Ralph Earl explains: To answer that question we should first turn to Mark 9:29..."and fasting" is not found in our two fourth-century manuscripts(cf.niv). It apparently was added in the fifth century, when much emphasis was being given to Gnostic asceticism and to monasticism. Then the whole of Mark 9:29 was inserted in Matthew.But Matthew 17:21 is not found in our two earliest manuscripts.///

 2012/10/18 18:48Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: Fasting and contemporary translations.

Quote:
Disturbing beliefs of the modern theologicaly intelectual faithless Cessationist Scribes



You have to be careful with assertions such as these. There are those who take the caveat of "not adding" just as seriously as "not taking away", which is why there are differences between newer translations. They try to stay true to the oldest copies that they have. And they've been unjustly villainized for doing so.

The user Chrisssss(however many s's) has done a bit of study on these issues himself, and could probably share a fair bit, and many who have studied it out objectively without giving heed to nutcase claims by the likes of Ruckman and Riplinger, have found many of the answers about textual criticism that they've been confused about. It takes some time to study and get into, but it's worth the effort IMHO.

 2012/10/18 20:04Profile
Anamosa41
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Joined: 2011/10/19
Posts: 112
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Quote:
There are those who take the caveat of "not adding" just as seriously as "not taking away", which is why there are differences between newer translations. They try to stay true to the oldest copies that they have. And they've been unjustly villainized for doing so.



I recently have done some research on this myself and I can say that you are right. The English Standard Version often includes footnotes that mention certain sentences and words that the translators decided to include within the text are not in the earliest manuscripts. Several times the translators also footnote those sentences or words if they felt it should not be in the text but rather footnoted.


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Ryan Rutan

 2012/10/18 20:53Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

I have a book shelf full of books on both sides, I have spent an excessive amount of time in study on the subject, for the most part I find that the books on both sides to be full of half truths and full of misleading assumptions and very unspirtually and unedifying. rather we are speaking of Ruckman, Riplinger and etc. or Barker, White and Carson or so on. I find all of there writings to be embarrassingly Carnal.

as far as the oldest and best manuscript excuse, (Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus the critical and eclectic text)
It has been the most powerful weapon of the Liberals and of the Historical criticism approach of the Bible. It has created monsters like Bart Ehrman and Harry Emerson Fosdick who where breed right out of our seminaries.

Constantine Von Tischendorf Is Highly Exalted by Liberals and non-inerrantists His discovery of the Sinaiticus has done nothing positive for the Inerrancy position but it rather has destroyed the faith of countless



 2012/10/18 22:27Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

It is highly disturbing to me how easy it is to rob christians from the scriptures that they have had for centurys, but than look at how easy it was for the Nazi's to turn many against the Jews in such a short time.

We have heard many times that the way that A Bank Teller learns to spot a counterfeit is by handeling the real thing and when a counterfeit comes along they can sense it immediately. By that same way of thinking, is the verses that I Posted on fasting counterfeit??

Ask yourself this did Satan through false Gnostics Christians in the fifth Century add the verses on Fasting as what the modern scribes would have us to believe?? Ask your self is that of Satan to add verses about fasting and praying??

My discernment says absolutely not my discernment says that Fasting is a means by which we can become more spiritually intune, that is not something that Satan is going to promote, now on other hand how about removing these verses, these verses that tells us how to become more intune spiritually so that we can be empowered by God to cast out demons, would that be something that the adversary would want to remove from scripture. Think about it!

 2012/10/18 23:14Profile
Anamosa41
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Joined: 2011/10/19
Posts: 112
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Ask yourself this did Satan through false Gnostics Christians in the fifth Century add the verses on Fasting as what the modern scribes would have us to believe?? Ask your self is that of Satan to add verses about fasting and praying??

My discernment says absolutely not my discernment says that Fasting is a means by which we can become more spiritually intune, that is not something that Satan is going to promote, now on other hand how about removing these verses, these verses that tells us how to become more intune spiritually so that we can be empowered by God to cast out demons, would that be something that the adversary would want to remove from scripture. Think about it!



Brother, I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your concern for the Scriptures; however, let us be careful about judging all the translations for putting "and fasting" in footnotes. It could very well, and for good reason, be a conviction the translators have to put words in footnotes if they are concerned that they may have been added to Jesus' actual words. I can understand why they would do that. My problem is when people deliberately remove words from the Scriptures when there is no reason to doubt their authenticity. Another problem I have is when translators sacrifice the accuracy of the text to the original languages in order to paraphrase Scripture and conform it to today's style of language. Where is the fear of God in that?

That is all I have to say about this. May we all be in prayer for God's guidance regarding what Bible translation we choose to read. It is His Word. He wrote it, so we can be sure that if we pray for Him to guide us in this issue that He will certainly do so.


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Ryan Rutan

 2012/10/18 23:49Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Anamosa41

Hi Anamosa41, I feel very strongly on the subject but I will except your exhortation as far as being careful in judging the motives or the personal intents of many of the translators.

Something else for everyone to think about is what Bible or Bible text do Christians feel convicted to use I relieze by asking it this way that there is the likely hood that some in there zeal will post there preference, I am not asking preference, I am asking about conviction. seriously give it some serious meditation on the issue, Many of the Godly Preachers featured on SI hold the same conviction as I do on this subject

 2012/10/19 0:25Profile





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