SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can we obey God or not??????????

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Can we obey God or not??????????

If it is not possible for any person to obey God after Adam's sin them someone please tell tell me how these people obeyed!

1 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

1 Kings 15:11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

2 Chronicles 14:2 And Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the LORD his God:

2 Chronicles 24:2 And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Joshua 22:2 And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you:

Haggai 1:12 Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the LORD their God, and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the LORD their God had sent him, and the people did fear before the LORD.

Did Adam or his descendants lose the ability to obey God after Adam's sin?

No!! The Bible tells the story of many people, some who walked with God and did what was pleasing in His sight and others who rebelled against God and did evil in His sight. It would be impossible to rebel or obey without the freedom to do so.

Joshua 24:15 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." KJV

Isaiah 1:19-20 "If you be willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land: but if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it." KJV

These passages prove that all of Adam's offspring still had the ability to obey or refuse God.

What about Enoch and others who really followed Gods commands? Again, it would not be possible to obey God if they did not have this ability.

 2005/2/25 11:30
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re: Can we obey God or not??????????

How much more shall we live a holy life in the New Covenant, given everything we need to live a godly life!

2 Peter 1:3 - [i]"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."[/i]


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/2/25 12:16Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re: Can we obey God or not??????????

Thanks for the thoughts freecd.

I would like to answer some of your questions. The first one you ask is "Please tell me how these people obeyed?"

The premise this question is based on is flawed, that is, it cannot be answered in the form that it has been asked without accepting the premise upon which it is based. In this case, the premise is that some people in the bible 'sinlessly' obeyed God.. which is an incorrect premise.

So in order to answer your question properly, I must first demosntrate scripturally that the premise is a misunderstanding...

Consider the words of King Solomon, "When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin),..." - 1 Kings 8:46a

Perhaps the wisest men who ever lived, plainly stated that there is no one who does not sin.

This is echoed throughout scripture:
- Psalm 130:3 "If You, LORD, should mark iniquities,O Lord, who could stand?"

- Psalm 143:2 "And do not enter into judgment with Your servant,For in Your sight no man living is righteous."

- Proverbs 20:9 "Who can say, "I have cleansed my heart, I am pure from my sin?"

- Ecclesiastes 7:20 "Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins."

- Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

- 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

If the passages you quoted were teaching what you assume them to be teaching - all these passages I noted would be blatantly contrary.

If on the otherhand, the passages you mentioned are not teaching a "sinless perfection" - but rather a blamelessness such as that taught regarding David in 2 Samuel 12:13, "So David said to Nathan, 'I have sinned against the LORD.' And Nathan said to David, 'The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.'"

In this verse we see that David repented, and God responded to that repentance by putting away David's sin - that is, David was not sinless - but God treated him as such.

That means that it has always been possible for a person to be right in God's eyes without being perfectly sinless. Remember that God "... knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust." - Psalm 103:14

Getting back to your question then, the answer is - those people did not obey in the sense you are imagining. They obeyed in the sense that they continued to turn to God for forgiveness when they sinned. They obeyed in the sense that they sought God's will, as opposed to their own. Not perfectly - but consistently.

Likewise your second question, "Did Adam or his descendants lose the ability to obey God after Adam's sin?" becomes moot. They didn't lose something because the something you imagine has been lost is entirely fanciful - having never been a reality ever.

I hope that helps.

Dan


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/25 14:01Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: Can we obey God or not??????????

By grace through faith the OT Saints were justified, sanctified, and glorified.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/2/25 17:11Profile









 At any given point in time we either are in obedience to God or we are not.

You said

“The premise this question is based on is flawed, that is, it cannot be answered in the form that it has been asked without accepting the premise upon which it is based. In this case, the premise is that some people in the bible 'sinlessly' obeyed God.. which is an incorrect premise.”

I disagree. At any given point in time we either are in obedience to God or we are not. No other choice is possible. It would be impossible to partly obey and partly disobey at the same time.

Just because we have all sinned does not mean that we CAN NOT obey. We always have a choice to make.

How can we be truly guilty without actually choosing to disobey?

 2005/2/25 17:39
MarkDaniel
Member



Joined: 2005/2/20
Posts: 43
Midwest, USA

 Re:

James 2:26 For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.

Ya know, do a search for the word 'obedient' or 'obedience' in the New Testament on any online Bible site. I come up with appx. 40 entries. Pray and SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES! :) I'll tell ya what though, you will hear alot of talk about faith, grace, and mercy today, but most of the fruit of that movement is disobedience and rebellion, no need for the scriptures, and rampant sinful living right within the lives of these people who have "slipped in among us." I say this because I LIVED IT at one time before I got the Holy Ghost for real.

Jude calls these men who use grace as a license for immorality GODLESS. JUDE 4 SAYS: "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."

JUDE is a powerhouse of information and knowledge about the days we live in. Crave the meat, not just the milk.


_________________
Mark Daniel

 2005/2/25 18:22Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re: At any given point in time we either are in obedience to God or we are not.

Freecd:
After re-reading your first post carefully, I come away with the impression (based primarily on your opening remark) that you are saying that the descendants of Adam either do not inherit the curse of Adam, or alternately, that the curse of Adam in no way affects them with regards to sin.

Likewise, you also seem to be saying that the carnal mind is --not-- emnity against God and that it actually --can-- be subject to God's law.

I don't want to put opinions in your mouth. Is this not what you are saying?

Dan


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/25 20:32Profile
AgesofWar
Member



Joined: 2003/5/24
Posts: 138
Chicago IL USA

 Re: At any given point in time we either are in obedience to God or we are not.

Quote:
I disagree. At any given point in time we either are in obedience to God or we are not. No other choice is possible. It would be impossible to partly obey and partly disobey at the same time.



Howdy do

Ok here is the thing it is possible in the past.
To Obey and still have the Flesh disobey.

I.E. Paul says in Romans..7ish, that with his mind he wants to obey God however his sinful body does not obey. He goes on to say something like.... So now who will save me from this sinful flesh, Thanks be to Jesus for he will save me.... Then he says something like, The Holy Spirit now makes it possible to Obey GOD.

See GOD stopped dealing with the Flesh on Calvary,
U gots to Remember the Words Our Master Spoke.
"It is Finished"
The Old Covenant is finished.
Dat means that in the past God !!dealt!! with man in the Flesh, and in doing so put up with allot of !ignorance! and his wrath had to be satisfied.........See Noah, See Sodom and Gomorrah, See Egypt, See the 400 priest of Balam,See Cain.

Add to your thought also that Old Test Good Guys Were being Judged by the Law, and before Moses the Law of Consience... Also add a dash of Cain and Able... They were Sacrificing even back then.
Dats 2nd Generation Human and they new they had to Sacrifice.

However Now we got a New Rule and that Rule is that JESUS Paid the Price for Our sins.

So now GOD Deals with us in a different way, Yeah that’s right a Different Way.

Now He Abides IN US, we do not have to Look at a Temple of God, or make Sacrifices for Sin.


Ok to sum up..
Old Testament "Obey" is Flesh Striving to be good, and failing. So I want to do Good but I can't... and GOD Understood that.

Connection was Long Distance.

New Testament "Obey" is JESUS Living IN YOU and me and the Flesh(Law) is not in the Equation any more.

Connection is Spiritual that's closer than Face 2 Face man... WoW!!! I just thought about that...

Hope that helps Bro


_________________
Michael

 2005/2/25 20:55Profile
sfwc
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 14
England

 Re:

Dan,

A minor point, but I thought it would be a good idea to tell you about it so you can deal with it. You say;

Quote:

the passages you mentioned are not teaching a "sinless perfection" - but rather a blamelessness such as that taught regarding David in 2 Samuel 12:13, "So David said to Nathan, 'I have sinned against the LORD.' And Nathan said to David, 'The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.'"

Getting back to your question then, the answer is - those people did not obey in the sense you are imagining. They obeyed in the sense that they continued to turn to God for forgiveness when they sinned.



This does not seem to square with one of the quotes originally used by freecd, namely
Quote:
Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, [b]save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite[/b]


_________________
Nathan Bowler

 2005/2/25 21:10Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Thanks sfwc - I noted it.

I read freecd's first post rather quickly (to my shame), and didn't fully take in what he was getting at.

Upon re-reading his post, I think he is opposed to total depravity - which makes my response a little ...off :)

Thanks for the thoughts though.


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/2/25 21:20Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy