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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Mormonism, Goose Bumps and the Great Falling Away by Jennifer LeClaire

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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Chris. No, you have not answered my question, and still have not. If you have answered it and I have missed it or I am just not getting it, please allow me some grace and re-tell me.

Chris, this is not a personal attack against you or others that may/will vote for Romney, but real concern about you/them falling into deception.


Quote:
Likewise, perhaps you can show me in Scripture (in context) where certain believers can use a public forum to attack other believers who hold a different opinion about this matter, insinuate that they are "blind" and prone to "voting for the Anti-Christ" (and worse) and then pretend that they are the victim when they are asked to not do this.



Chris. I never said this. I did say that I believe Christians are deceived, but I do not remember saying the above statements.


Chris, my posts are bold, but in love. If they have been disrespectful and hurtful, that is not my intention and I appologize. I am still a work in progress and the Lord is still molding, teaching and growing me.

Brother. Now that you have a clearer view of my heart on the matter, I can say that I stand by my postings and questions.


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Christiaan

 2012/9/24 17:53Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3228
Texas

 Re:

Let's see, do I want to endorse a satanist or a baby killer and someone that says its fine for two men or two women to marry. Talk about deception, you have already seen what Obama can do, let's vote him in again,because he has proven his beliefs in his actions. I just can't wait to see what other surprises Master Obama has up his sleeve. My guess is Christianity will be a thing of the past, if the Muslim is re elected. Also, show me scripture were Christians are suppose to endorse Muslims, is there a real difference in Muslim and Morman beliefs?


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Mr. Bill

 2012/9/24 18:03Profile









 Re:

Chris you fail to realize that there is a demonic element behind both Romney and Obama. Whatever name you may want to give the ideology. Mormonism, liberation theology, Islam, or secular humanism. It is demonic and comes from one source. Satan. Or as Bill would say. Old Sluefoot.

You seem to think this is about issues and who is the better candidate. Not true. Both men are controlled and deceived by an antochrist spirit. So which ever one a Christian nay vote for are in effect partnering with an antichrist spirit.

Paul warns us in 2 Cor. 6:14-18 to not partner with demonic forces and to be separate from them. For a believer to vote for either Obama or Romney in effect will be partnering with demonic forces.

Chris this is not opinion but New Testament truth. According to Eph. 6 there is a ranking order of demons that inhabit the earth and heavens. Some of the highest ranking demons and Satanic forces are found in Washington DC. Thus tbeir influence on policy makers.

That is why Christians need to stay out if this election and politics. It is evil and demonic. This is not about issues. It is Satan exercising demonic control through the political process.

John writes in his first epistle that the whole world lies under control if the evil one. That is governments. That is this government. God calls us to be separate from these demonic systems and be a witness for Christ.

Bearmaster.

 2012/9/24 18:27









 Re:

Bill again both Obama and Romney are controlled by demonic spirits. Best advice. Don't endorse either if them. If you feel you must vote. Vote for an independent. However I would suggest do as the Anabaptist did and not participate in the governmental processes and be a witness for Christ
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Bearmaster.

 2012/9/24 18:37
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Miccah,

Quote:

Chris. No, you have not answered my question, and still have not. If you have answered it and I have missed it or I am just not getting it, please allow me some grace and re-tell me.



You asked:

Quote:

Please show me, in scripture (in context), where believers are to establish and endorse a Satanic leader to lead over them, secular or spiritually...



I suppose that the fallacy in this question itself. You see, you are assuming that those believers who might feel that Mitt Romney is a better choice over the next four years is the same as "establishing" or "endorsing a Satanic leader" to "lead over" us.

I have made it quite clear that:

A.) Mormonism is a damnable cult.
B.) Mormons don't realize that their cult is a heresy and aren't knowingly embracing "Satanism."
C.) Polls overwhelmingly indicate that Governor Romney's religious views are not the reason that people will vote for him.
D.) Americans are not choosing Mitt Romney's church, church leaders or religious beliefs.
E.) Some of the beliefs that Mitt Romney adheres to -- such as abortion and homosexuality -- are correct in regard to the Biblical view on the matter DESPITE the Mormon cult.
F.) Believers in Christ are not endorsing Mormonism.
G.) Believers who might support Romney simply think that he will do a better job DESPITE his religion.

Now, I can point to unsaved kings who are in the same boat (or worse) but whom godly men served. Joseph served Pharaoh. Daniel and the three Hebrew children all served secular kings. The children of Israel and Judah submitted to many ungodly kings of Israel, including some who had bowed their knees to Baal.

The American government is one of "consent." Americans consent by permitting and selecting the representatives who will legislate on their behalf. They aren't "establishing" them because the government is established. Nor are they establishing EVERYTHING about each and every representative that is selected. For instance, I have had professors, employers and even people that I have employed that I didn't agree with them on everything. I chose them because they were good in a particular field and not because of their religious views.

On most issues, I agree with you and Frank; however, it doesn't mean that I endorse EVERYTHING that you believe. If the forums at SermonIndex have shown anything, it is that it won't take long before Christians will find something wrong with other Christians -- even if they agree on most issues.

By the way, "consent" can be given even without an affirmation. By simply remaining quiet, we can give consent. In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the Levite and Priest can be construed to have "consented" to the condition of the victim of a crime by walking by and failing to render aid. While I would certainly prefer a Christian man in the White House, I am simply happy that someone -- even a "nasty" Mormon -- will stand for some things that I feel are right.

Likewise, I can ask for you to give me something clear -- from Scripture -- that believers cannot vote for a person in a government of the people unless that person is a Christian. After all, a Mormon is in the same "lost" category as every other cult, atheist or mere non-believer. However, that doesn't mean the Mormon is wrong in everything or unqualified to be better qualified to manage as a chief executive.

Quote:

Chris, this is not a personal attack against you or others that may/will vote for Romney, but real concern about you/them falling into deception.



My issue with this particular thread is when we are treated as "second-class believers" by certain believers with whom they disagree. To accuse someone of being "blind" for a mere difference of opinion on this matter is stepping beyond mere concern.

Still, please allow me to ease your serious concerns. My faith in God is real. I hope that you are encouraged by the fact that the greatest and most important thing in my life is to spend time and please the Lord who saved me. The same is true of many believers that you or others may disagree with in terms of the upcoming election. I am not and will not endorse Mormonism. I will not "vote for the Anti-Christ." I will continue to wholeheartedly seek the face of our Lord and endeavor to please Him in everything.

Quote:

Chris. I never said this. I did say that I believe Christians are deceived, but I do not remember saying the above statements.



In my first post in this thread, I was quoting Frank. The specific yet subtle accusations were the ones that I felt were grievous enough to participate in this thread. Please forgive me if this wasn't clear.

Quote:

Chris, my posts are bold, but in love. If they have been disrespectful and hurtful, that is not my intention and I appologize. I am still a work in progress and the Lord is still molding, teaching and growing me.

Brother. Now that you have a clearer view of my heart on the matter, I can say that I stand by my postings and questions.



Thank you, brother. I just want people to know that there are many of us who truly love, seek and know our Lord but might have a different perspective on this issue. It seems like (as usual) we all agree on the "main thing" but differ mostly on the practice of specific things.

I appreciate your concern too. Like I said a few times, I don't have a problem with individuals sharing their concerns. It is when we meander from concern to accusation -- including subtle accusations -- that my heart grieves. I often feel concern when I am misunderstood or misconstrued. When issues are raised about the spiritual condition of one's heart because of an issue like this, I do grieve over it. When poems are posted and accompanied by proud words by individuals who claim that I "attacked" them by simply asking them to refrain from accusing me over a mere disagreement, I feel grieved.

Perhaps it appears selfish on my part to respond. If it is, I apologize for it. However, I do simply feel a need to offer an answer when someone uses this public forum to spread insinuations about those with whom they disagree that are either skewed generalizations or contain misrepresentations of our character or faith.


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Christopher

 2012/9/24 18:53Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3228
Texas

 Re:

Bear, your right! Maybe Jesus will be here by November, hey you never know.


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Mr. Bill

 2012/9/24 19:04Profile









 Re:

Bill on that we agreed. I am all for Jesus returning. Think I will stand down.

Bear.

 2012/9/24 19:24









 THAT THEY ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED THAT LOVE NOT THE TRUTH!


Brothertom writes..........

"This is more bizarre than any other cult in the world, IMHO."

I would have to agree with that brother. Up until about ten years ago, the notion that Mormonism was a classic cult would just simply not be questioned by any group of Christians. We can now see have far we have fallen in a short period of time with this and other issues. Yet, this is part of God's judgment and so those who know the truth simply have to speak the truth in love. Obviously many will get upset and angry and personally attack, but this is part of what the coming conference is about, about the persecution that is coming to North American Christians who will dare to stand upon the truth...............bro Frank

We must remember that as cruel as it may seem, it is GOD! who turns souls over to STRONG DELUSUSION, because they received not the love of the truth.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

God ordained B. Obama as president, to hurry along impending doom, on a country that once honored God and His Son. It will not matter if Romney wins; Do you think we would repent, if he did?

On another note; Tell me when America had the last Christian President? [You cannot probably, if we decided in terms of being born again; not denominationalism or "Christian Masons".]

Certainly not in the last 150 years. So, if they are not true Christians, then they are by DEFINITION infidels...the exact same as Romney or Obama.

I will not vote for this reason. God hates Murder and Abortion is MURDER...and both candidates are up to their shoulders in innocent blood. Romney only recanted when he began his run for President 10 years or so ago; read his legislation in PA that promotes it, when he was Governor.

If not for this, I might consider him for President.



 2012/9/24 19:35





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