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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Laying on of hands and impartation of spirits!

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lindi1208
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Joined: 2011/3/8
Posts: 160


 Re:

Saints thank you for your responses which are abundant in wisdom! Laying on hands is an essential part of Christianity!

Armkelly wrote "Yet it is impossible to deny the concern one would feel if a brother in an unclean sin which leads unto death were to want to lay hands on you. No doubt discernment would be a help in such a situation"

This is what I was concerned about and you are right that discernment is essential! Your example was brilliant in how disobidience can open the door for the enemy to try to gain a foothold! I think it is important to always remember who we are in Christ! But certainly discernment should be practiced!

I am reminded of the many videos on YouTube that show believers being slain in the spirit or in fits of uncontrollable laughter! If we are truly born of God we can discern and avoid taking part in false manifestations and this requires obedience. But what about the babes in Christ and undiscerning believers is it possible that all those affected in the phenomena of being slain in the spirit and other ungodly practices could be unsaved or without understanding?


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Lindi

 2012/9/18 12:30Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

Quote:

i am skeptical of this. this sounds like hocus pocus supersticion 2 me. greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world. what this 'example' intimates is that god can not protect his people, and that the devil can sneak in cause a believer to sin.



I do not want to comment on laying of hands, but I thoroughly believe that a Christian can be filled with daemon. Jesus himself said this -
Luke 11-24 to 25:- “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.”

Here the Swept and put in order heart can be compared to a man who is cleansed by the Blood of the lamb (Jesus) but has not yet yielded his heart to the Holy Spirit, hence his heart is empty and Daemons can easily fill it. This is the main reason why many are still struggling with worse sins that even unbelievers are not committing.

The verse one who is IN me is greater than the one who is in the world is not applicable here because they do not have the Holy Spirit IN them.

Quote:

i think if sum1 is walking w/the lord they are protected by him.



This you said is true but not everyone is walking with him. Walking with God means to have fellowship with God. To have fellowship with him you need his Spirit inside you.


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Sreeram

 2012/9/18 12:44Profile
SkepticGuy
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Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

how can 1 be saved and not have the holy spirit? they have an empty heart? what is salvation 4 if we are left with a empty heart and no holy spirit? i'm new to all this, and am learning all the time, but this idea makes no sense.

 2012/9/18 13:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I do not want to comment on laying of hands, but I thoroughly believe that a Christian can be filled with daemon. Jesus himself said this -
Luke 11-24 to 25:- “When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.” sree.



Sweeping the house clean is not the same as being born again. It is worth remembering that Jesus delivered many from unclean spirits many if not most of them were Jews. The demon's left because they had no choice. I can't imagine that these men and women would have been inclined to continue in their sin which was often what the Lord said after deliverance "go and sin no more". Or else they were commanded to eat or else drink something. This eating and drinking points to the body and has to do with filling the body which has been cleaned. We need wisdom in all of this. This seems to agree with your observation of the heart. Yet this cleaning of the house is not the same as being born again. On the other hand those who are born again do need to be mindful of how unclean spirits justify their activities. Their authority comes from the activity of the individuals heart which is turned to wickedness or else is full of fear. The one oppressed or else possessed gives consent to these spirits by simply intending to do evil; or else by being weak minded and in their fear of being oppressed or else possessed yield their will to a spirit taking advantage of the situation. If this seems perverse then it is. Nevertheless this is how unclean spirits labour. It is also worth remembering that these same spirits are also themselves driven by one whose working is more terrible to them than the possible consequences of being homeless and vagrant; even Satan who has complete authority over them. Unclean spirits vary in strength and intelligence. They may always want to go back but they may not be able to go back, hence why they will seek out other stronger spirits to help them take back the house.

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. This is the measure of being born again. Demons cannot possess men and women in the whole man, spirit,soul and body. They can only labour in the flesh of either the heart (mind) or body (the house). The spirit is born of God and cannot be possessed by any other spirit. It is always in communion with God.

 2012/9/18 13:30
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

Quote:

how can 1 be saved and not have the holy spirit? they have an empty heart? what is salvation 4 if we are left with a empty heart and no holy spirit? i'm new to all this, and am learning all the time, but this idea makes no sense.



I do not want to comment more on salvation because I have my understanding of Salvation which is completely Biblical but many here who trust on man made theology will get offended.

One of the main difference between Holy Spirit and Evil Spirits, is Holy Spirit will not posses us but Evil Spirit posses us. Holy Spirit is very gentle and never takes control of things that we do not want him to take control of. To be filled by the Holy Spirit we need to seek for it. Many do not seek for the Holy Spirit or they seek with wrong motive and that is why they never receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus brought Grace and Truth with him, this Grace is not just forgiveness. Forgiveness of Sin was existing even before Jesus. The real Grace is Holy Spirit who frees us from the Power of Sin.

Salvation is 3 parts, to be saved from past sins (forgiveness), to be saved from Power of Sin (living by Grace) and to be saved from Presence of Sin (2nd coming). But may restrict with just first part because they secretly enjoy sin and do not want to be out of it.


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Sreeram

 2012/9/18 13:58Profile
SkepticGuy
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Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

Quote:
I do not want to comment more on salvation because I have my understanding of Salvation which is completely Biblical but many here who trust on man made theology will get offended.



so u are saying you have an unorthodox view of salvation?

 2012/9/18 14:18Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: I am reminded of the many videos on YouTube that show believers being slain in the spirit or in fits of uncontrollable laughter!

I rememeber when I first heard reports of the Toronto blessing that it was beening passed on by touch eg laying on of hands.

Personally I can only watch video's on this blessing for a short time because I become aware of the spirit behind the toronto blessing trying to influence me.


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Colin Murray

 2012/9/18 14:43Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

Quote:

so u are saying you have an unorthodox view of salvation?



I wont call my understanding of Salvation is unorthodox. But it is definitely against few popular beliefs. I do not want to start a heated debate again by quoting something that offends another. I hope I answered you on the infilling of Holy Spirit and how a heart can be empty.


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Sreeram

 2012/9/18 14:49Profile
lindi1208
Member



Joined: 2011/3/8
Posts: 160


 Re:

Colin wrote

"I rememeber when I first heard reports of the Toronto blessing that it was beening passed on by touch eg laying on of hands. "

This is exactly what I have been trying to understand. It seems a false spirit was imparted to undiscerning believers through the laying on hands! In some churches an adultrous pastor prays and lays hands on his members and soon enough most of the congregation has adultrous affairs or fornication becomes rampant in that fellowship! A little leaven leavens the whole lump!

What was going on in the Toronto blessing could everyone have been unsaved in those meetings? I am not saying that the believer can be possessed by a demon this is scripturally impossible! However it seems there are things that can influence a believer negatively e.g we talk of how harmful the tv can be and allows demonic activity into our homes thus the tv is an entry source that gives the enemy access or a foothold in the believers life! So an unclean pastor by laying his hands on an undiscerning consenting believer could possible impart a false spirit to influence or oppress the believer! Is this not a possibility!

Why would believers be exhorted to guard zealously their faith and not to fellowship with darkness if we could not be led astray at all?


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Lindi

 2012/9/18 15:50Profile
lindi1208
Member



Joined: 2011/3/8
Posts: 160


 Re:

If a pastor's sinful life is exposed in most instances the pastor is asked to step down and the loving process of restoration is started but the pastor can not serve that congregation. This means the pastor can not lay hands on the members until if by the grace of God that pastor is fully restored. The stepping down effectively protects the congregation wouldn't that be the case!

The church is spiritually protected from the sin in that one's life! Sometimes the individual is handed over to the enemy for the destruction of the flesh with hopes that they may repent! Although not a pastor the man in Corinth had to be disfellowshipped and Paul stated that a little leaven leavens the whole lump!


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Lindi

 2012/9/18 16:18Profile





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