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wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

Here is a letter that Norman Grubb wrote to a Christian lady who couldn't/wouldn't quit and felt condemned about it:

My dear Nancy:

My dear, your problem is really very simple. The smoking "bondage" is to "force" you to see that you are still holding on to a false self-image in which you think you are a Nancy-self who shouldn't smoke; and so you
struggle against self-condemnation in your smoking, and pray and "believe", and nothing happens!

You see this is the final form of the self-affirming self we got tricked into believing in at the Fall by the Enemy
Deceiver. We there partook of the "tree" of knowledge of good and evil", and not just what we usually call evil.
So really the worst evil (to which we were blinded) is that we can and should be "good" selves -just a final form
of self-loving and self-affirming self. This is the final struggling "self" of Romans 7. In our spirit centers we are
the redeemed who "delight in the law of God in the inward man," but we still don't recognize that our human
self was never an independent, self-relying self, but only a slave and vessel and branch of Satan, that "spirit of
error". But he "kidded" (deceived) us into thinking we were independent selves who could be good selves;
though in that bondage to him our "good" self was just another Satanic form of self-loving self (which can take
all kinds of forms of good works).

Because of this Romans 7 deceit, we are still blind to the fact that the moment we were delivered from Satan
indwelling us and expressing his self-loving self by us, at the time of our faith union with Christ in his death
(Paul's "I am crucified with Christ" of Galatians 2:20), we were immediately in that same faith-union "married"
to our Other Husband (Romans 7:1-6). Instead of the Romans 7 lie of apparent independent self, we have
become slaves, branches, vessels of and in Him.
The law was given to expose this lie of self-relying self and expose us to ourselves as slaves and expressers
of Satan (John 8:44). We first saw that in our committed sins, and found our deliverance from guilt and wrath in
His shed blood. But then, as redeemed ones, we have to move on to recognize the final lie of an apparent
independent, self-relying self, which holds on to its supposed goodness. This is the final form of Satan
deceiving us, because the lie of independent self really means we are still in self-bondage to the god of selfloving
self (that is Paul's "I am carnal, sold under sin" of Romans 7:14). There the law still says to us, "you
ought"; and of course that independent self can't stop doing its self-loving things, as with your smoking. So the
law has its final Romans 7 use in exposing to us this lie of being independent selves who "ought" to be good
and do good, and resist any forms of self-indulgences or self-reactions, including self-esteem.

And so, at last, we are brought to the final discovery of Romans 7, that we are "dead to the law" in the dead
body of Christ (7:4). Finally we see that there is no such thing as an independent self on which the law can lay
its demands; for that lie of independent self was really my self enslaved to Satan, (Mr. Self-loving Self), and
just fulfilling his "lusts". But now my same self has changed husbands and "bosses'', and instead of believing
this lie of independence, I see that I am the vessel, branch, and wife of Christ, the Spirit of truth and when I
know that, and cease to respond to life by fussing about my own self-improvements and self-bondages, not
only do we cease to listen to the laws of "you ought, you ought not" to which we are "dead", but we settle by
this same faith into the fixed consciousness of we being Christ in our redeemed human forms (the second
phrase of Galatians 2:20 - "I live, no not I„but Christ lives in me").

Knowing this - we recognize the former temptations to try to improve ourselves or to take guilt and
condemnation for our failures. And instead of resisting such temptations, we now accept them as mere
temptations, and replace them by affirming and knowing Christ in us as us. We recognize deliverances can
only be HE expressing His delivering Self by us in any way he pleases.

Thus, love, with your smoking. You recognize and accept (without resisting) your desire and enjoyment of
smoking. You don't try to change yourself or stop smoking. You simply say, "Christ, you in me, will do the
stopping in your own way and time. I take that for granted by faith.'' If then, the habit grabs you again and you
smoke, you don't take condemnation (Romans 8:1), but again just reaffirm that He is the real you, and that He
will easily and naturally cut off the smoking in HIS own way and time. Then go ahead with your daily living -
without condemnation, but with faith. It looks daring, and looks like license, but turns out to be the only
permanent liberty - HIS freeing HIS temple in the way HE pleases and does it.

So, love, you see your problem is not the smoking, but the false Romans 7 concept that you should not be a
smoker and you should be rid of it. So it is God's good way of the final exposure of the lie of the self-affirming
self of Romans 7 - the final form of sin which still gives Satan his ways of a temporary grab on us. I've loved
talking this over with you, my dear, and let's keep talking. So I shall await the next line from you.
Ever loving you, Norman


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2012/9/11 2:13Profile
SkepticGuy
Member



Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

Quote:
I've often wondered that too Ginny. I see people instantly delivered at the 'Altar', and I point my finger at the person and at God at the same time with a question mark.



do u think that perhaps its becuz in sum cases god knows the person will not have the fortitude or perseverence it takes to quit, so he just removes it all together in one shot? or maybe god has sumthing else he wants that person to be doing other than struggling with an addiction like that?

i do wonder why christians get more concerned about tobacco than they do food, which kills more americans a year than all other unhealthy habits combined. for our own health we should not smoke, but abusing food goes ignored, and is actually encouraged at some churches. i refuse to go to any of the dinners they have at my church. nothing but fried food and heavily sugared food.

 2012/9/11 8:26Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

SkepticGuy wrote:i do wonder why christians get more concerned about tobacco than they do food, which kills more americans a year than all other unhealthy habits combined. for our own health we should not smoke, but abusing food goes ignored, and is actually encouraged at some churches. i refuse to go to any of the dinners they have at my church. nothing but fried food and heavily sugared food.

__________

I think its tragic that the topic of gluttony and food obsession is not taught on more. There is much need for encouragement and admonishing one another in the body where this sin is concerned. GOD healed me of my bulimic sin but it was not easy. With other addictions a person can go cold turkey, its difficult but their lives do not depend on them every using again. With someone who is a glutton or obsessing about food its more complicated. No one can just stop eating(believe me I tried that to, doesn't work out so well) So there is no way to dye to this sin and just go cold turkey with the addiction. A person still has to eat some amounts of food in order to live. This is where complete trust and reliance in CHRIST is so vital. I do wish there were more teaching on the subject but you are right from some of today's religious teachers there does seem to be silence on this topic.


I do want to offer my prayers for the person who wrote the original post. I will be praying for you and that JESUS will be your strength.

God Bless
maryjane

 2012/9/11 8:46Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
i do wonder why christians get more concerned about tobacco than they do food, which kills more americans a year than all other unhealthy habits combined. for our own health we should not smoke, but abusing food goes ignored, and is actually encouraged at some churches. i refuse to go to any of the dinners they have at my church. nothing but fried food and heavily sugared food.



Exactly. I believe tobacco is way less dangerous than eating things like margarines, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oils, MSG, Aspartame, GMO and much more man created chemicals sold as foods. Or I believe refined sugar addiction is more dangerous than tobacco. The absurdity to be at full length, some time ago millions of american christians were lining up in a fast food chain to get a portion of MSG, and new agers and followers of other religion noted that and laughed at the stupidity of so called christians, here is the example:

http://www.naturalnews.com/036653_Chick-fil-A_anti-boycott_ingredients.html#ixzz22OOIMmLH

Dear Martyr, I don't think you need sermon to quit smoking. Get inform in real whole foods that God created, start to investigate, get some juicer and make some juice, make some fresh salads with fresh locally grown vegetables, get some locally grown fruits, buy grain mill and mill fresh flour and make some whole grain bread, make some yogurt and kefir, start to know and love the real things, you will forget smoking, because you will don't need it. Your body will reject it, when you fill it with good stuff. There are so many things you will discover that you will be astonished and amazed by God's goodness in His creation and care for us.

 2012/9/11 9:23Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Tears_of_joy wrote:I believe tobacco is way less dangerous than eating things like margarines, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oils, MSG, Aspartame, GMO and much more man created chemicals sold as foods. Or I believe refined sugar addiction is more dangerous than tobacco.
____________

Having watched my dad die slowly of lung cancer I don't think I would say that tobacco is "less" dangerous. Having a hamburger and fries once in awhile is not going to kill you(unless you have a particular health issue already) but tobacco products can and do lead to cancer which does kill you.

I think GOD is all about balance and our view of food needs to be brought into line with HIS view. Food is to nourish our bodies so that we will have strength and energy to be about HIS KINGDOM and we not be ruled by our appetites. Obsessing about food, be it health food or junk food can become a sin. I think balance, submitting to CHRIST, and foods in moderation is the key.

God bless
mj

Edit: just wanted to say sorry for going so far off topic. Again my prayers are with Martyr as you seek to make JESUS LORD of all your life.

 2012/9/11 9:54Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: Smoking

Quote:
I'm torn on the inside. This past week I decided to take a solo week long camping trip to be alone with God and away from the temptation of smoking...but the Lord closed that door! This makes me think that maybe it doesn't matter if I smoke, and yet I don't want to do it anymore, I don't want to look like the world.


Brother,

Maybe it wasn't the Lord at all but just the circumstances of the day and the hour that closed that door. You need to know that the Lord will love you whether you smoke or not but He will also love you and help you through the sicknesses that come from smoking as well too. I've seen Him do this with my own family.

It's not that the Lord wants to take away one of our few pleasures in this life but that I believe He desires us to live longer to be a witness for Him in this land. When I smoked I loved smoking but really, what smoker doesn't? LOLOL We have too in order to put up with all that coughing!! But I praise His holy name today because I sure don't miss all that coughing!

One of the things the Lord told me upon my decision to quit smoking was to throw away my lighter. I already threw my cigarettes out the window but why the lighter? When I argued that I had just bought it, He spoke to me (not audibly but I knew it was Him), 'all the times you've tried to quit before, you never threw away your lighter.' So I rolled down the passenger window and tossed out my lighter on I-75. And praise His Holy Name, I haven't smoked since but HE gets all the glory, b/c if He hadn't spoke to me I wouldn't have thrown any of it away.

Have you ever thrown away your lighters too? I'll pray for you that you hear clearly from the Lord on this matter!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/9/11 10:09Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Sister Lisa that's awesome and it lines right up with scripture!

Jesus said if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out or if your hand cause you to sin cut it off. To me this shows to extremes God is asking us to go to not sin. Of course God doesn't want us to have to get to this point Jesus is talking in extremes to make his point. But If your lighter is causing you to sin throw it out the window on I-75 (litterbug ;) lol

To me Christ is saying if you are sinning because there is opportunity to sin then remove that opportunity. For men it's wise to have their parental controls on their computers set to high. Why? because it gives them a better chance of using their computer without running into an inappropriate image that may cause them to stumble.

God Bless,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2012/9/11 10:31Profile
Martyr
Member



Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States

 Re:

Wow, you guys are awesome! Thank you!

In response to Lisa, its funny, I was walking the other night and felt conviction to throw out my two zippos. I still haven't "quit" but I have severely cut back and have decided to just seek the Lord, being fully assured that this issue will be resolved by Him. And even now I can feel the desire to smoke falling off of me.

The past few weeks, even before I really got serious about quitting, the verse "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts," has been constantly going through my head. And in all this I can clearly see the Lord teaching me humility. I CAN'T quit. I am far too weak and easily distracted for that. I'm just waiting now for the Lord to take this away from me. And I trust He will.

Thanks again, I got a lot of confirmation from the posts in this thread regarding the things the Lord has been telling me. I'll be sure to let you all know when this addiction is taken away from me.

God Bless!


_________________
Tyler

 2012/9/12 11:16Profile





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