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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Is God really angry?

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 Re: Calling Mr. Bailey...

My Brother,

Christ did the same thing that I am doing.

He would draw out a law from the Torah and then He would say, "But I say unto you".

Now did Christ change the law or did He draw out the righteousness that was contained in the law that was hidden to the legalistic eye?

I could quote scripture, but my brethern you are well acquainted with the word.

Even God when handling David and Bathsheba's and Urija murder, God did not consult the law. He went around it to save David. The law stated "Life for Life", in the act of adultery, the man and the woman were to be stoned.

Now why didn't God stick to the context of His own word?

The only answer to this question is that God is rich in mercy, slow to anger. But even when you consider that, you begin to ask the LORD why? Why did you spare David and Bathsheba? Though you did take the childs life, but that child was innocent.

Which this is not in the bible, but it is an imagery of Christ. That that child was a typology of Jesus Christ, innocent in every way, yet He had to die for his father and mothers transgression.

Yes your probably right about those terms, which I must say I am very stupid when it comes to theological terms.

There are many doctrinal errors that are within the church that we have come to believe and even though we read those same things over and over again, our eyes have not yet been opened to understand the truth of God's word. Even though it is in context, yet it is in error.

I was praying and getting close to the LORD and I felt this urge to grab a pen and paper and I began to write some things down regarding the differencs between what the bible says about; Sin, Transgression, Iniquity, Wickedness. These were four steps that a person can come to and the worse of these is Wickedness, because at this level there is little or no hope.

No you won't find it word for word in the bible.

The written word is not an end, God is still speaking to us, that word that He speaks to us is just as much apart of the Word of God is as the written word of God. Holy men of old were moved by the holy Ghost to write, how much more today with the holy Ghost in us, is there no holy men today that write under the inspiration of the holy Ghost?

We hear great men like Dwight Moody, Smith Wigglesworth, David Wilkerson and Carter Conlon do we discount that anointing that is upon these men that speak as an oracle of God as nothing and counted as dung?

Are we that far gone to believe that that written word is it?

I bunt up against Christianity, I kick against the goads of it's system. It's squeezing the life out of the believer, we need to grow and put on the mind of Christ.

What if God told anyone of you who is reading this and He said, "I want you to walk around North America naked, as a testimony against this nation and it's sin" Would you do it?

Probably not!

Or How many would give up their own life while out on the raging ocean and you knew that you were the cause of the ships plight and it's crew, would you offer up your life to be thrown in the ocean?

Probably not!

If God asked you to put human dung in your bread and then tell you to eat it, would you? I know Ezekial didn't, so God said, "O.K. add cow dung instead" Would you eat it?


If God said for you to go into a harlot from an infested Aids street. She ain't no Christian, but you are. Would you do it?

Probably not!

Why wouldn't we do these things? because our standard is higher then God's.

Have you heard what Peter said to Jesus, "Not So LORD"

Peter put his ways higher then God's.

We all do it, but that doesn't make it right.

Christianity has built within us certain guidelines that we must follow and if we step outside those lines, we become a heretic (which I am). The sad thing is that Rome and the Protestant churches practically think alike.

Martin Luther stepped out of those guidelines, and became a heretic.

Tyndale was declared a heretic because he stepped outside the guidelines.

And thank God many more have done so.

I am now just beginning to understand that to know God's ways has a large price tag attached to it. But He has made me willing to pay that price.

My friends there is nothing like knowing God's ways, by knowing His ways, He opens up to us all the storehouses of wisdom and understanding, truly David was right when he said, "Thy ways are past finding out".

God love ya


 2005/2/21 22:31


Thank you for your lengthy letter. Now who can argue with A.W.Tozer?

Of course his convictions are his own and rightly so. But every man in his own order. I for one could not keep such vows. I am a firm believer of what Christ said about not making them. Mr Tozer said, if I should break the vow, humbly get down and repent. Now to avoid the repentance wouldn't it be better not to make the vow? I mean, I am forever repenting on things that are secretly hidden in my life, why would I add more sorrow to sorrow?

I respect Mr.Tozer's conviction, but it's not for me.

 2005/2/21 22:42


The wrath of God is revealed from heaven. Meaning that God's wrath was revealed then (2000 years ago). I guess it would all depend upon where we put the "last days". Most of Christianity places the Last Days, the Great Tribulation, etc.. to the future, whilest I am in the minority who believes that the wrath of God was poured upon Jerusalem in 70A.D. Hence Preterism.

So don't be upset with me Brother/Sister for believing this way (I believed the other way for years).

It all hinges upon one word and who you recognize that one word to be in Daniel 9:27. "And he shall confirm the convenant with many for one week.........."

If you can discover who the "he" is, you will have some eye opening discoveries.

God love ya


 2005/2/21 22:59

 Wanna be like Jesus

The Lord Jesus Christ, the greatest Preacher to ever walk the earth set a mold and a Godly template of how to preach GRACE! He came to preach the Gospel, the Good News, and that Good News , the Lord Jesus Christ Himself outlines when He opened up the Precious Word of God in the Scroll of the prophet Isaiah (killed by the "religious elite" of the day:

'The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because He has annointed me
to preach good news to the poor.

He sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,

to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor".

Luke 4:18-19 (Isaiah 61:1-2)

That is very very good news, and that is the Gospel.

The Lord Jesus further enumerates the mercy and grace given by God when He rebukes His disciples who were ready to call down fire to destroy unwelcoming heathens (hmmmmm, that sounds familiar)

"But Jesus turned and rebuked them. And He said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them".

Luke 9:55

Both Jesus and John the Baptist saved their most vociferous ire for the religious elite(read hypocrites) of the day, they called the Pharisees, "vipers" and "hypocrites", because these are the very ones WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER, to wit:

I desire mercy, not sacrfice.

Oh, those Pharisees were so ready to stone that adulterous woman, I can see them licking their lips, and their lil eyes shining in anticipation of stroking the violent self-righteous urges of their inner god-man, and Jesus, quite calmly, almost detached, "Let whomever among who is without sin, cast the first stone".

Oh my God, Lord have mercy on us, please! Most people, ESPECIALLY the "religious elite" LOVE to condemn others to a fiery end, to consign them to hell.....listen to me, LET GOD BE GOD, you just discharge the Great Commission, the Great Commission is to PREACH THE GOSPEL!


Preach the Good News, if you wanna storm the Bastile and wear your hair shirt, take on the Pharisees of our day...then again, who among you might be a Pharisee? search your hearts, and repent now.

You wanna denounce homosexuals, go take on Gene Robinson's of this world, and the other apostates of the Episcopal church leading people astray.

What about that scarlet harlot Rome? and her priestcraft and superstition? Why does it feel that the Church always give the pope a pass?

It seems to me that claiming the Blood has no power to save from sin, and that a mere man is the vicar of Christ are some pretty heinous sins and worthy of further denunciation.

Jesus loved the Am-HaAretz of his day, the common people, and went after the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Herodians with His fiery barbs.

I wanna be like Jesus, I want to look that woman in the eye, WITH LOVE, and quietly say, "Go and sin no more".

That's why I had a good ILLLUMINATING time with the "where did Judas Iscariot go?" a person, everyone consigned him to hell. We serve a God, we serve a Lord and Master, Whom would forgive Judas in the blink of an eye.

EVERYONE of us has betrayed Dear Jesus in one way or another, repudiated Him, betrayed Him, failed Him, and I can feel His hand on my cheek now, I can feel His hand holding my hand, saying, "I know you and yet I love you still".

Ask yourself this, whom do people read today more, Jonathan Edwards or David Brainerd?

true, Jonathan Edwards preached a fiery Gospel, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", but God sent Brainerd to die at Edwards house, and Pastor Edwards printed the diaries of Brainerd, which have NOT been out of print in 250 years, and have influenced so many of Jesus' dear children, coz when you read Brainerd, you see the heart of a man filled with the love of God, a sense of his own unfittness, and a complete and utter DEPENDENCE on Jesus.

God IS love.

 2005/2/21 23:08

 Oh Karl

thats some good word there!

btw my previous post was agreeing with your original post..I ain't no preterist (sic) but I was in agreement with what you wrote.

would I have the Holy Ghost cajones to take a coast to coast walk nekkid?

good writing.

 2005/2/21 23:15

 Re: Oh Karl

I would recommend two sermons:

"Hells Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort and also "Ten Shekel Shirt" by Paris Reidhead

 2005/2/21 23:23


heard 'em both, they're great.

 2005/2/21 23:34

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Well

This is going absolutely nowhere. Where in the world did all these assumptions come from?

No anger here whatsoever, just bemused by it all.

One word that comes to mind is Hermeneutics, which if anything all this may prove beneficial in causing me to go back and study it again.

In a nut shell it is the art and science of Biblical interpretation. And I hardly qualify as one that could even begin to teach it. But there has to be some basic understanding of the nature of things stated in scripture. Not legalism or just plain cold 'facts', of course it's a spiritual book. It is also a historical book and prose, proverbs, prophecy, etc., certainly that doesn't escape us.

But this has so many tentacles and assumptions, what's with the straw man? It's all over the place and it's starting to border on the same argument of whether scripture is infallible or not. If we can't measure our experiences and what we think the Lord may be telling us against that standard, then we all would become a cult unto ourselves. That's not legalism.

Originally this started as a statement that God was no longer angry and then went on to state the reasons why. I don't see any support at all to buttress that claim, nor do I see any real sense of just what anger and wrath might be meant by God, it is certainly beyond our comprehension and from what I can gather it stems out of His great love which as well is far beyond our ability to grasp. This all seems to be reducing God down to our level. If the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge that must encompass more than just reverence. What do you do with the wrath of the Lamb?

Edit: Just as I was signing off this came via email;

Christian Quotation of the Day

February 22, 2005

There are still those who would add to the faith human traditions and fancies, thus cluttering it up and obscuring it; and those who would take away from it, rejecting (often with little thought) whatever may seem to them to be out of harmony with the so-called modern mind; and others who would distort it, making it one way or another a pretext for injustice and oppression.

But, if we are to be effective in contending for the faith against false teachings, we must certainly contend for it by striving ourselves to understand it ever more truly and more fully.

... C. E. B. Cranfield (b.1915), I & II Peter and Jude

Mike Balog

 2005/2/22 0:37Profile

Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


To echo Mike's comments I would like to ask just what do you think the cross was all about? I recently heard a sermon by Rick Warren and his thesis was that God is not mad at you but mad about you. This reduces the cross to the raving actions of a deranged lover. The reason why God can have mercy on us is because His Son voluntarily stepped into our place to face our justly deserved wrath upon the cross. The cross was as much justice as it was mercy for on the cross justice and mercy met. Justice was satisfied and mercy flowed to all who will receive it.

I would add that not only is God angry at sinners(us), but His anger at sin will never subside. Any sins I've committed years ago that made Him angry then, He's still angry at. Not only is He angry, He's infinitely angry, and He is also justly angry. I stand before Him guilty and without a defence as do all men. If I a finite man choose to stand alone in this wrath to pay an infinite price I would be altogether destroyed in Hell and forced to pay forever in the furnace of the wrath of a justly angered God. But the depth of the mercies of God are shown to me that while I was yet a sinner, Christ died for me. Only an infinite being could pay an infinite price, and for the joy set before Him he endured the cross, scorning it's shame, and became the only sacrifice that could satisfy the wrath of God and not only cover, but remove my sin. Yes God is angry with sinners, every day, and yes He loves them. That is our terror and our comfort. It is a deep thing to think that we who believe have been saved by God, for God, but also from God. Saved By Him for He is the only one who could pay the price, For Him because the price He paid has made us His inheritance, and from Him--in the end we'll see that we weren't saved from hell, or the world, or the devil, but saved from the wrath of an angry God.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey

Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/2/22 1:10Profile

 Bro Mike

assumptions? lol, I know you cant be talking to me, I used Scripture to buttress every point.

I'm glad yur not angry, thats good.

 2005/2/22 1:21

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