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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
AND I plead with you to not deem something that the Bible is silent on to be “of demons” just because you don’t agree with the practice (i.e. falling in Spirit). We need to tread lightly what we teach others to hate especially when the Bible is silent on it. Far too many people on SI write their own Bibles where the Bible is silent on an issue. Shame on you. It’s pride and vanity.

God said and yet we still do not understand.... For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55.8-9



Sister, I fully agree with you that no man can put God in a theological box or say He cannot do anything, because He does all things well and can do things beyond our even imagination. It is a clear caution that we do not go beyond what is written and if something is of the Lord that is not written it will bear witness and have fruit in it. Such as the barking and drunkeness in the Spirit, for most believers who read closely their Bibles such "manifestations" go against the fruits of the Spirit namely: Self-Control.

God does heal people and do many wonderful things and it is almost always to bear witness to the true Gospel message. It is not something that I see as everything is demonic if its not written but rather we can know the spirit of something by testing it according to the working of God's Spirit in the Scriptures. Personally I believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues and other things clearly written in Scripture. But this does not mean I have to endorse or accept out-landish things that are happening in the name of God. These are the last days and there are many false signs and wonders with false teachers who are decieving God's elect, we have to realize this and not consider all these "faith-healers" "faith-teachers" to be correct.


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Also For instance am not used to the word "Real Revival" which our American Brothers use again and again. I understand our brethren in d US had to add d prefix "real" because of what some Pastors there do.



Dear brother, I am not sure what part of Nigeria you are living in but there is so much "american Gospel" there with prosperity teachers, focus 100% on healing and God's blessing for us rather than on godliness, christ-likeness, overcoming sin and preaching on the glory of God in the cross. All the old-time revival preachers focused on the latter.



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when those rational humans gathered,what they saw the Apostles do made them conclude that they were drunk.It could be some of the Apostles staggered, while some lay prostrate on the floor thereby showing signs of intoxication.



Brother, I simply do not agree with your interpretation of Acts 2 here is the passage:

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”

Peter Addresses the Crowd

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.



I simply see there being a noise of many praising God in different languages, possibly 120 different languages or more. And at the most they were all doing it at the same time so that could be a great noise.

I do not believe the passage even allows us to think that any of them were fallen on the floor, or acting drunk in anyway. That accusation of drunkeness simply was a way for them to explain the situation because they could not understand what was being spoken because so many languages were being verbally spoken.

Paul and the other Apostles are standing and addressing the crowd and there is simply no allusion at all in the scripture of what modern charismatics deem falling in the Spirit or drunkennes in the Spirit. There is 100% no New Testament proof of this either, many use Saul when he falls to the ground, yet this is simply the Lord bringing conviction to His heart as a murderer of God's people and blinding him. I wonder why all the believers who believe this as evidence for the slain in the spirit also do not claim the blessing of blindness for 3 days?

I am not against you brother as a person in anyway but I do want to stand for the truth and righteousness and we must not accept our doctrines or experiences from other people but in the lineage of church history and more importantly the Scriptures.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/8/31 19:57Profile









 Re: Joe

My brother I think Greg's previous post best articulates what I see the New Testament teaches. So for my answer to your question I point you to Greg's post prior to this one.

Blessings my brother.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/31 20:55
used4him
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Joined: 2011/9/3
Posts: 76


 Re:

I don't have time to read all these posts, and scanned Greg's, so hopefully I haven't missed anything important. What I want to say is that I agree with Greg's belief that Saul was knocked off his horse because he was a sinner, and under conviction. We don't know for sure if the disciples were acting drunk or not, scripture doesn't say one way or the other. What I have experienced is an 8 year old girl, who went up for prayer at a children's retreat, and received the Baptism with speaking in tongues. Her friends brought her to me because they were concerned that she couldn't stand up well. She was weaving back and forth as if she was drunk, with a big smile on her face. She knew nothing about what she was supposed to experience before she got prayer. So was this from God? I believe it was.

 2012/8/31 23:09Profile
SonsofLevi
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Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 107
Richmond, Va. USA

 Re:

Evan Roberts book "War on the Saints" co-authored by Jessie Penn-Lewis and "The Spiritual Man" by Watchman Nee are good books on this subject.


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R. Evan Gombach

 2012/9/1 0:16Profile
endlessjoe
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Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 157
University of Calabar Nigeria

 Re:

God bless you Brother Used4Him for your wonderful contribution especially the story of the little innocent girl whose mind had not been corrupted by our Theology.

She came to the Lord on a "tabula rasa",received the baptism in the Spirit and it made her sway back and forth.

Though her experience is not our standard,afterall -bless her heart- she could've had a demon,but what am sayin is that when The Spirit comes upon a person as He regularly does in Revivals,there could be a physical reaction beyond the individual's power to control.

Whatever form these physical reactions take,whether its falling,rising, crying,shouting, prophesying or "stripping"(King Saul) may differ from person to person.

Like I said earlier, the three detachment of soldiers King Saul sent, came in contact with the Revival in Ramah,and the Spirit's influence on them made them to prophesy and abandon their mission.This to me is a far greater feat than getting someone to "fall under the Anointing" .

I feel this great FEAT deserves more attention than it had enjoyed.I've seen soldiers in our streets in Nigeria and I know it'll take extra terrestial powers to get a soldier- hardened by training and experience -to Prophesy and abandon his mission.

Only The Spirit can do that when He moves in a Revival. That's why am bent on praying for Revival.

If you say Saul was knocked off because because he was a sinner or had a demon,I'd question d wisdom behind his prophesying. Why prophesying -obviously under the influence of the Holy Spirit- instead of recieving deliverance from the demon and forgivenness of sins.

Am increasing aware of the fact that during Revival seasons,The Spirit's influence upon the human mind could be so strong that the individual is led to do things in the natural that they wouldn't ordinarilly do.

I have reasons to believe the Apostles in Upper-room maintained order and decorum because Scriptures say they were sitted, till they lost control to the Rushing Mighty Wind. This made them all to speak in languages obviously unintelligible to any of them and probably at the top of their voices without stopping to follow order,allow one person to speak per time or question what has come over them.

This is the Revival I recognise. When the Spirit takes over and under His genuine influence we lose our self restraints , dignity and PRIDE.


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Emeka Joe Uzosike

 2012/9/1 4:16Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

ok a question was art kats possed by demons in this disription of his baptisim in the spirit

I have also been greatly shaped by experiencing the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I once had a great experience, probably the profoundest in God, in preparing the message on mercy. In Ma Brogger’s trailer up at the farm, the Lord lifted the veil, so much as a crack, and beams of light came forth in such a way that I was found two hours later when she returned with a friend, stretched out on the floor, on my face and unable to move. I was surrounded by wads of soaking kleenexes from my tears, and she went right to the phone to call for an ambulance; I could only gesture that it was not necessary, but I could not speak, I was so overcome by the power and the glory that had issued from this little crack of God’s revelation. Finally, they put me up on a seat, and I tried to explain what had happened. It was now time for me to speak, so they wanted to drive me down to the camp. I said that I could not get into a car, nor could I even ride on my bike. I could not touch anything made by man, and I could not even walk down the regular road to the camp; I said that I had to go the back way, so as to not see anyone before I went up onto the platform. That is how profound an experience that was

 2012/9/1 6:13Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

im sure iv also herd of others who were estemed men of god ,who were out postrait on the ground

johnnathan edwards wife was another

iv read edwards writings about afections of the soul,,he said that slaying in the spirit can and does happan from god spirit

 2012/9/1 6:16Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

the great vesel in the first great awkening says this

It is a stumbling to some, that religious affections should seem to be so powerful, or that they should be so violent, (as they express it,) in some persons. They are therefore ready to doubt whether it can be the Spirit of God; or, whether this vehemence be not rather a sign of 368 the operation of an evil spirit. But why should such a doubt arise? What is represented in Scripture as more powerful in its effects than the Spirit of God? Which is therefore called “the power of the Highest,” Luke i. 35. and its saving effect in the soul is called “the power of godliness.” So we read of the “demonstration of the Spirit and of power,” 1 Cor. ii. 4. And it is said to operate in the minds of men with the “exceeding greatness of divine power,” and “according to the working of God’s mighty power,” Eph. i. 19. So we read of “the effectual working of his power, ” Eph. iii. 7“. “the power that worketh in Christians, ” Eph. iii. 20. the glorious power of God in the operations of the Spirit, Col. i. 11. In 2 Tim. i. 7. the Spirit of God is called 2 Tim. i. 7. “the Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”—So the Spirit is represented by a mighty wind, and by fire, things most powerful in their operation. Many are guilty of not taking the Holy Scriptures as a sufficient and whole rule, whereby to judge of this work. They judge by those things which the Scripture does not give as any signs or marks whereby to judge one way or the other, viz. the effects that religious exercises and affections of mind have upon the body. Scripture-rules respect the state of the mind, moral conduct, and voluntary behaviour, and not the physical state of the body. The design of the Scripture is to teach us divinity, and not physic and anatomy. Ministers are made the watchmen of men’s souls, and not their bodies; and therefore the great rule which God has committed into their hands, is to make them divines, and not physicians.—Christ knew what instructions and rules his church would stand in need of, better than we do; and, if he had seen it needful in order to the church’s safety, he doubtless would have given to ministers rules for judging of bodily effects. He would have told them how the pulse should beat under such and such religious exercises of mind; when men should look pale, and when they should shed tears; when they should tremble, and whether or no they should ever be put into convulsions. He probably would have put some book into their hands, that should have tended to make them excellent anatomists and physicians. But he has not done it, because he did not see it to be needful.—He judged, that if ministers thoroughly did their duty as watchmen and overseers of the state and frame of men’s souls, and of their voluntary conduct, according to the rules he had given, his church would be well provided for as to its safety in these matters. And therefore those ministers of Christ, and overseers of souls, who are full of concern about the involuntary motions of the fluids and solids of men’s bodies, and who from thence are full of doubts and suspicions of the cause—when nothing appears but that the state and frame of their minds, and their voluntary behaviour, is good, and agreeable to God’s word—go out of the place that Christ has set them in, and leave their proper business, as much as if they should undertake to tell who are under the influence of the Spirit by their looks, or their gait. I cannot see which way we are in danger, or how the devil is like to get any notable advantage against us, if we do but thoroughly do our duty with respect to those two things, viz. the state of persons’ minds, and their moral conduct; seeing to it that they be maintained in an agreeableness to the rules that Christ has given us. If things are but kept right in these respects, our fears and suspicions arising from extraordinary bodily effects seem wholly groundless. The most specious thing alleged against these extraordinary effects on the body, is, That the body is impaired, and that it is hard to think that God, in the merciful influences of his Spirit on men, would their bodies, and impair their health.

But if it were in multiplied instances (which I do not suppose it is) that persons received a lasting wound to their health by extraordinary religious impressions made upon their minds, yet it is too much for us to determine that God shall never bring an outward calamity, in bestowing a vastly greater spiritual and eternal good. Jacob in doing his duty in wrestling with God for the blessing, and even at the same time that he received the blessing from God, suffered a great outward calamity from his hand. God gave him the blessing, but sent him away halting on his thigh, and he went lame all his life after. And yet this is not mentioned as if it were any diminution of the great mercy of God to him, when God blessed him, and he received his name Israel, because as a prince he had power with God, and had prevailed.

But, say some, The operations of the Spirit of God are of a benign nature; nothing is of a more kind influence on human nature than the merciful breathings of God’s own Spirit. But it has been generally supposed and allowed in the church of God, till now, that there is such a thing as being sick of love to Christ, or having the bodily strength weakened by strong and vigorous exercises of love to him. And however kind to human nature the influences of the Spirit of God are, yet nobody doubts but that divine and eternal things, as they may be discovered, would overpower the nature of man in its present weak state; and that therefore the body, in its weakness, is not fitted for the views, and pleasures, and employments of heaven. Were God to discover but a little of that which is seen by saints and angels in heaven, our frail natures would sink under it. Let us rationally consider what we profess to believe of the infinite greatness of divine wrath, divine glory, the divine infinite love and grace in Jesus Christ, and the infinite importance of eternal things; and then how reasonable it is to suppose, that if God a little withdraw the veil, to let light into the soul—and give a view of the great things of another world in their transcendent and infinite greatness—that human nature, which is as the grass, a shaking leaf, a weak withering flower, should totter under such a discovery! Such a bubble is too weak to bear a weight so vast. Alas! What is man that he should support himself under a view of the awful wrath or infinite glory and love of jehovah! No wonder therefore that it is said, Exodus xxi. 20 “No man can see me and live;” and, 1 Corinthians xv. 50. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” That external glory and majesty of Christ which Daniel saw, when “there remained no strength in him, and his comeliness was turned in him into corruption,” Dan. x. 6-8. and which the apostle John saw, when he fell at his feet as dead; was but a shadow of that spiritual majesty of Christ which will be manifested in the souls of the saints in another world, and which is sometimes, in a degree, manifested to the soul in this world. And if beholding the image of this glory did so overpower human nature, is it unreasonable to suppose that a sight of the spiritual glory itself should have as powerful an effect? The prophet Habakkuk, speaking of the awful manifestations God made of his majesty and wrath, at the Red sea, and in the wilderness, and at mount Sinai, where he gave the law; and of the merciful influence and strong impression God caused it to have upon him, to the end that he might be saved from that wrath, and rest in the day of trouble; says, Hab. iii. 16. “When I heard, my belly trembled, my lips quivered at the voice, rottenness entered into my bones. I trembled in myself that I might rest in the day of trouble.”. This is an effect similar to what the discovery of the same majesty and wrath has had upon many in these days; and to the same purposes, viz. to give them rest in the day of trouble, and save them from that wrath. The psalmist also speaks of such an effect as I have often on persons under religious affections of late, Psal. cxix. 131.

God is pleased sometimes, in dealing forth spiritual blessings to his people, in some respects to exceed the capacity of the vessel in its present scantiness; so that he not only fills it, but makes their cup to run over; Psal. xxiii. 5.) and pours out a blessing, sometimes, in such manner and measure that there is not room enough to receive it. (Mal. iii. 10.) He gives them riches more than they can carry away; as he did to Jehoshaphat and his people in a time of great favour, by the word of his prophet Jahaziel in answer to earnest prayer, when the people blessed the Lord in the valley of Berachah, 2 Chron. xx. 25, 26. It has been with the disciples of Christ, for a long season, a time of great emptiness on spiritual accounts. They have gone hungry, and having been toiling in vain, during a dark night with the church of God; as it was with the disciples of old, when they had toiled all night for something to eat, and caught nothing, Luke v. 5. And John xxi. 3. But now, the morning being come, Jesus appears to his disciples, and 369 takes a compassionate notice of their wants, and says to them, Children, have ye any meat? And gives some of them such abundance of food, that they are not able to draw their net; yea, so that their vessel is overloaded, and begins to sink; as it was with the disciples of old, Luke v. 6,7. and John xxi. 6.

We cannot determine that God never shall give any person so much of a discovery of himself, not only as to weaken their bodies, but to take away their lives. It is supposed by very learned and judicious divines, that Moses’ life was taken away after this manner; and this has also been supposed to be the case with some other saints. Yea, I do not see any solid sure grounds any have to determine, that God shall never make strong impressions on the mind by his Spirit, that shall be an occasion of so impairing the frame of the body, that persons shall be deprived of the use of reason. As I said before, it is too much for us to determine that God will not bring an outward calamity in bestowing spiritual and eternal blessings; so it is too much for us to determine how great an outward calamity he will bring. If God gives a great increase of discoveries of himself, and of love to him, the benefit is infinitely greater than the calamity, thought the life should presently after be taken away; yea, though the soul should lie for years in a deep sleep, and then be taken to heaven: or, which is much the same thing, if it be deprived of the use of its faculties, and be as inactive and unserviceable, as if it lay in a deep sleep for some years, and then should pass into glory


 2012/9/1 6:43Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

anyone interested in reading the whole thred i bumped it in the articals and sermons sections ,,

but ijust relised i can post the link

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41909&post_id=334509&order=1&viewmode=flat&pid=303901&forum=34#334509

 2012/9/1 6:46Profile
endlessjoe
Member



Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 157
University of Calabar Nigeria

 Re:

God bless you Brother Gary. I recieved Your line of thought hook,line and sinker. I'd come back online in the next few hours and take time to copy your write up into my diary word for word. It'll take me time and energy since I browse with a phon but I'll be better for it. Or Better stil, if you can forward it to my email uzosikeemyjoe@yahoo.com, I wil be grateful. Wil then print it anyday I go to d cybercafe. Thanks for going out of ur way to rightly divide d Word of Truth. I can only praise God who's given such gifts to the Sons of Men. Bro Emeka Joe Uzosike writes from d Heart of tropical Africa (Nigeria)


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Emeka Joe Uzosike

 2012/9/1 9:03Profile





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