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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 and ye need not that any man teach you

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 2012/8/30 0:34Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi proudpapa

i dont believe that scripture you quoted can be draged out of its oridgnal contex ,and aplied to newcovernt believes ,and then used as a scripture to suport a true believers growth to maturity ,is better done with a desert island type princaple

brother your exposisions of those verses is a basic thing that most of us would allready know

scripture says he who is of god heres the words of god

these jews were not led by the spirit in any way shape or form ,,there father was the devil jesus said

all whom the faher have givern me will come to me
and i will in know way cast them out
you do not believe ,becasue yo are not my sheep
my sheep here my voice and i know them
and they follow me

i dont see how we can aply that scripture in the contex it is in to an issue i raised about finding scripture,to suport us coming to our own conlusions about what scripture teaches ,with out the true matured elders helpng to expound and teach us ,,

we constanly see the apostals apling there teaching gift to expond the old testament and give its meaning to the readers ,,,and other examples of others who are not apostals ,taking aside certaint others and teaching them more properaly the word of the gosple

i see no one exorted to go off on ther own and come to there own conclusion as a lone ranger of interprations

if we look at timothey he was exorted to keep the teaching he got from paul a sound doctrine ,, not his own version


blessings

 2012/8/30 0:46Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re: and ye need not that any man teach you

hi proudpapa the last scripture you posted by john doesnt suport the island theloligy

the reason why the church spoken of here by johns knows all things ,,becase they were taught by teachers and the apostals them selfs and prophecided to by propherts and led by pasters ,we know this by reading pauls leters to the corinthians ,,

these dont need men to teach them .like the old coverent days ,they have the holy spirit ,teaching them inturnaly ,and through apostals propherts and pasters and teachers ,,god him self speaks throught these chosen vesels to aply his holy doctrine,,,we all know this and we experance this

this scriptue agrees wityh the letters of paul and does not teach we shoyld go in a cave and get intouch with an inerlight ,and get all our understang from that ,,not at all brother

blessings to you

 2012/8/30 0:59Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: brothagary

Hi brothagary,

RE: brothagary wrote ///i dont believe that scripture you quoted can be draged out of its oridgnal contex ,and aplied to newcovernt believes ,and then used as a scripture to suport a true believers growth to maturity ,is better done with a desert island type princaple///

I believe that scripture I quoted is extremly applicable for today and for this topic and has been inspired (preserved) specificaly for our usage today, it certainly was not written down and preserved as to be a benifite to those of whom it was spoken. He is calling on (all men) to set there traditions there preconcieved notions, there theolgys to the side and not to be bound by Orthodoxy and to put Ones trust in His sovereignty to both inspire the written word and also to illuminte its meaning.

 2012/8/30 1:49Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: brothagary

Hi brothagary.

RE:brothagary wrote ///hi proudpapa the last scripture you posted by john doesnt suport the island theloligy///

1 John ch 2 most certainly does support /island theloligy/ The context of first John is that in the last days in which he says of his day had already begun that there would be those teaching a false Christianity whom would try to seduce us, We are living much closer to the last time than was John and these suducers are much more prevailent than was they then.

I agree though that there is a balance needed within the brotherhood and I believe that, that is the point that you are trying to make, I know we can and do get a blessing from anointed brethren and anointed preachers but we must needs to be intune and in the Word enough to dictate error, And willing to do as so many of the herroes of Faith of the past and stand alone when so called to.

 2012/8/30 2:07Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi proudpappa i relise that scripture was not preseverd for those of whom it was spoken ,thats more then obvious ,,just the aplication of it as you used it is to far in the wider contex to aply it to the caled and chossen sheep ,,for one it spoke about those who were not called whose father was the devil him self as jesus said

i dont think he is calling all men to set a side traditions if they are of a godliy tradition ,

paul said in one of his letters if you rember to hold fast to the tradtion taught by word or letter

maby you have a differnt definition to me regarding orthadoxy ,, but the lord as revived certaint orthadox christanity and blessed them with the baptisim of the spirit as a sign of obedance ,,and there was no need to put a side orthadox traditions ,,just fast, prayer and bible stude and preach the word


brother there is live orthadoxy
and dead orthadoxy ,as there is weat and tares

we should not bundel them all together and burn them angles

if your saying get out of the dead liberel orthadox traditions and church ,i agree

bless you

 2012/8/30 4:20Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

not all the heroes of the faith threw out there learing and traditions ,some were blessed to have been taught good things and were further blesed with great power from on high there is a balance on that scale there as well

 2012/8/30 4:25Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
not all the heroes of the faith threw out there learing and traditions ,some were blessed to have been taught good things and were further blesed with great power from on high there is a balance on that scale there as well


A wise caution! The apostle Paul’s past experience and heritage was used mightily by God in the formation of the epistles. In other words: Paul did not start a brand new religion – and it was vital that the people of his day could see that. This was not sudden flash cult he was promoting! No! It was rooted in God’s ancient promises and plans. That is also important today. Many have arisen with their own “desert island” brand of Christianity – but it is not rooted in historical Christianity.

Quote:
we must needs to be intune and in the Word enough to dictate error, And willing to do as so many of the herroes of Faith of the past and stand alone when so called to.

Very true! At the same time God will use the Body to expose our errors and faulty ways. I don’t necessarily mean that somebody gives us a phone call and tells us we are wrong. I mean that through the maturity and insights of others – past and present, God does the work of transforming our mind. That will indeed involve our desert experiences when God gets us alone with him, away from the pressures and patterns of our own social contexts… (off the treadmill). That is where he can teach us … and yes certainly through others too. After all, there are many who have walked the walk ahead of us. And even the weaknesses and sins of others provide teaching ground for us. (How else can we learn to be forgiving people?)

It seems that the real dividing line has to do with where our trust is placed: It in God – or in people (ourselves included)? That discovery, in itself, is a learning process – through both solitude and community with others. Certainly that is the way how God has worked in my life, and as I have discovered, in others too.


Do these comments resolve the tension between solitude vs community in the Christian life?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/8/30 7:58Profile









  Gary and Diane

It would appear that Paul did count his traditions as rubbish in Philippians 3. The chapter describes how he counted his Jewish tradition as loss compared to the surpassing value of knowing his Messiah Jesus.

For surely all one needs is Jesus and his word to be sustained and grow and not the religious traditions of men. For this is the testimony of the persecuted church in restricted nations.

Just my thoughts from his word.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/30 10:10
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: brothagary

Hi brothagary,

RE: brothagary wrote ///hi proudpappa i relise that scripture was not preseverd for those of whom it was spoken ,thats more then obvious ,,just the aplication of it as you used it is to far in the wider contex to aply it to the caled and chossen sheep ,,for one it spoke about those who were not called whose father was the devil him self as jesus said///

The application of the verses very much can and should be used in the context of island theology in that (all men) whom read such verses so ought to and so needs to do a self examination and ask themselves if they are guilty of the same such things as what the Religious of Jesus day whom believed that they where the called and chosen of God but whom by their traditions made the Word of God of none effect.

They believed they had eternal life because of there understanding of scripture but there traditions Blinded them from the true meaning of the written word which caused them to not be able to recognize the true Word.

RE: brothagary wrote ///i dont think he is calling all men to set a side traditions if they are of a godliy tradition ,///
I do believe he is calling (all) men to examine their traditions in the light of (all) the scripture. And for them to prove to their ownselves that their traditional understandings are not making the Word of God of none effect. Many within religiosity have historicaly as well as currently made the word of God of none effect by their traditions, We all agree on this, like wise in that we all agree, we should all be open to Gods leading thru the scripture of truth to reveal to us personal errors in our traditions and preconcieved understandings and be willing that God change our perspective in the ereas in that He sees fit.

RE brothagary wrote ///paul said in one of his letters if you rember to hold fast to the tradtion taught by word or letter///
Amen, and let me make clear that I am not encouraging us to be tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Nay but just the exact opposite

RE: brothagary wrote ///maby you have a differnt definition to me regarding orthadoxy ,, but the lord as revived certaint orthadox christanity and blessed them with the baptisim of the spirit as a sign of obedance ,,and there was no need to put a side orthadox traditions ,,just fast, prayer and bible stude and preach the word
definition orthodoxy "the condition, quality, or practice of conforming, especially in religious belief" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/orthodoxy

Lets be orthodox in truth but lets becareful of what religiousity that we conform to.

RE:/// fast, prayer and bible stude and preach the word/// hey now that is some good Orthodoxy!

RE: brothagary wrote ///brother there is live orthadoxy
and dead orthadoxy ,as there is weat and tares///

good point

RE: Brothagary wrote ///we should not bundel them all together and burn them angles///

that is why I included in my other post = "I agree though that there is a balance needed within the brotherhood and I believe that, that is the point that you are trying to make, I know we can and do get a blessing from anointed brethren and anointed preachers but we must needs to be intune and in the Word enough to dictate error, And willing to do as so many of the herroes of Faith of the past and stand alone when so called to."



RE: brothagary wrote ///if your saying get out of the dead liberel orthadox traditions and church ,i agree

bless you///

I would not just limit it to the dead liberals in seeing that there are many whom are conservative and are bound up by traditions and legalism that also have not the truth.

Blessings also to you Brother



















 2012/8/30 10:22Profile





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