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 Re:

I know in some traditions some would reason being in church instills sitting under the systematic teaching of the word. As expounded by the teaching pastor. But this sounds very much like the Old Covenant synagogue or temple.

Is this the New Covenant church Jesus envisioned? Col.3:16 says we are to have the word of Christ dwell richly within us teaching and admonishing one another. Not left in the hands of one man. This would imply somewhere along the journey believers are to be in their word and prayer before God and learning from him. And then coming to share in the body of believers.

It would seem the New Testament orientation is the believers come and share what God has given them in their alone time with him. Not so much to get a message from the chief teaching pastor of the church.

Just my thoughts.

Bearmasterter.

 2012/8/24 14:41









 Re:

It just dawn on me there is the balance. That one should be before God reading and praying. Seeking truth from Jesus. But then come in a corporate context to share what God has revealed to them.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/24 14:51









 Re:

Bear, I think you're right and as long as I've been a member here, I've posted my favorite verses ... Joh 16:13,14 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When we stand before GOD -- we won't be able to blame some pastor or teacher for what we believed that was Biblically wrong.

But by the same token, we're back to those verses that the other thread dealt with and the verses posted and not posted about "elders, etc".

My daughter found a Church where she was living and when she described to me what their "Bible Studies" consisted of - I nearly dropped.
I 'think' it was the Alpha method, where all they did is ask each person "What does this verse say to you?" and it was a free-for-all on interpretations that were left to stand, with no concrete meaning given for what the verses were saying, contextually or otherwise.

So, here we are back to these verses and the others from Timothy 1 & 2 and Titus, etc. ...


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

--------------------------

Also, I wish that Chris had the time to write that book that he's thought of writing ...... as long as it's free :).


LORD Bless!

 2012/8/24 15:04
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

COMMENT:

Unless one sees this operational in a body of believers one can easily expect to see an independent spirit rise up and overwhelm a person. This spirit will not accept or consider what any message of edification another may have to share. It will disregard any confrontation of sin because they consider themselves more spiritual then another. In other words, a prideful spirit is controlling a person.

The NT teaches us plainly that we are a body, all with differing functions that must work together for the common good. This is the essence of 1Corinthians. So then, if you are stranded on an island and have the NT you will be desiring [eventually] a find other Believers to fellowship with.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/8/24 15:38Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Desert Island Theology

Excellant Thread.

I Find that what sscott7 has described here is very much the Theolgy that Jesus taught.

The Religious Jews of Jesus day claimed to believe The scripture but Jesus time and time again revealed to them that they trully did not have Faith in the Scripture but rather in thier religious traditions they where blind to the truth, Just like us today they had examined and argued and wrote commentary on every single verse of scripture, they had personally memorized countless amount of scripture, Yet because of there preconcieved understandings, doctrines, theolgys, their pretalmud they where completely blind to the truth. They would have and trully did argue with God himself on the true meaning of scripture.

Jesus did not teach the nature of scripture as what the Jews of His day understand it nor as Christianity teaches it today. He taught a nature of scripture that could only be understood as a supernatural inspiration, Jesus clearly made a theological point based on the inspiration of the jott and tittle down to the very verb tense of a word that was in the copies of copies that was available in His day In which was about 1500 years after the original writings, That makes no logical since to the Naturalistic mind, Yet That is the nature of scripture that scripture teaches of its self. It goes much further into the supernatural realm than what men like B.B.W. could ever comprehend.
What we need to relize is that our reality as understood by our experience and our understanding is a mere delusion. And what God says is Absolute! If we trully believed the nature of Scripture as scripture clearly teaches of its self, we would never rely on a Paraphrased or a thought for thought version for by doing so we succumb to the philosophy that only the basic tenents or thoughts of the Faith (what ever that is?) Has been perserved or inspired and thus we are trapped in the traditions the doctrines and the theolgys of Christendom.
So it would seem that the first step in this Desert Island Theology is to believe in such a Sovereign God that He would be able to provide the common plow boy with a supernatural and totally trustworthy Text, that it completely defies all the Laws of the naturalistic realm. Thus throwing off the Majority of the Worldly wise.
I will add one last very important point the Letter without the Spirit is dead. It takes the Spirit of God to illuminate the Letter.

Savannah wisely made reference to George Mueller, I find it fascinating that George Muellers first step of Faith was to throw out the Commentary and to trust God for interpretation of Scripture.

I applaud so many of the post written so far on this thread

 2012/8/24 15:48Profile









 Re:

Sometime ago I read about a young woman in Iran who converted to Christ. She was from a Moslem background. The only Christian in her village. All she had was access to the internet. She had converted to Christ through one of the Christian Farsi web sites that broadcast into Iran. All she could do was download the Farsi New Testament into her computer

What chance does this sister have of sustaining her walk with Christ. I would say with that New Testament and the Spirit of God teaching her. She will be used mightily in her village and Iran. For truly she is on a desert island.

Dear God may this precious sister grow in your word and be a faithful witness of Jesus in Iran.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/24 17:16









 Re:

There's a lot of good insight from the comments on this thread. Also, I just want to reiterate that the purpose of my post was not to encourage people to abandon fellowship and become and island unto themselves. It was to encourage people to diligently search the word of God for truth, and not simply just accept what they've been taught. If believers really did hold the word of God as the authority that it is, it really would clear up a lot of the unbiblical practices and traditions that we see in Christianity today.

 2012/8/25 0:03
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re: Desert Island Theology

It is very naive to think that given the chance of a new start for the church we would get it right. God has already used his choicest men in the past, the most holy and devout men who walked on earth in their time only to see that after their departure men would all to quickly turn to sin, folly and dead religion.

Desert Island theology is exactly what God did in Noahs time. God chose Noah to give all life on earth a fresh start. Noah was one of the most holy men ever lived before Christ apart from John the Baptist and Daniel and Job.
The desert Island was mount Ararat where the ark came to rest.

We must understand that the true church always existed along man-made religion. The two are always in tension and this tension is God's ordained way. Only through this tension can the true church be kept pure, otherwise she quickly gets corrupted. In fact many noble and pure movements of the past faded away after a genreration or two and turned into dead religion. Now in the last of the last days we have a much greater cloud of witnesses and 2 millenia of church history to glean wisdom from.

The true church will draw men out of false religion and has to suffer greatly for this. God has his own way to keep us pure through suffering and chastisement.

 2012/8/25 8:34Profile









 Re: Scott

And those that search out the truth in that desert island will leave the established, structured church. For surely they will hear him who says come out from them and be separate.

He that has an ear. Let him hear what the Sprit says to the churches.

Bearmaster.

 2012/8/25 9:11
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2009


 Re: the faith of George Mueller


proudpapa wrote,

"Savannah wisely made reference to George Mueller, I find it fascinating that George Muellers first step of Faith was to throw out the Commentary and to trust God for interpretation of Scripture."

George Mueller,along with many others such as William Carey and David Brainerd,are so inspirational that they're worth quoting.

George Mueller at the age of 25 wrote,

"In the course of time I came to this country, and it pleased God then to show to me the doctrines of grace in a way in which I had not seen them before. At first I hated them, If this were true I could do nothing at all in the conversion of sinners, as all would depend upon God and the working of His Spirit. But when it pleased God to reveal these truths to me, and my heart was brought to such a state that I could say, “I am not only content simply to be a hammer, an axe, or a saw, in God's hands; but I shall count it an honor to be taken up and used by Him in any way; and if sinners are converted through my instrumentality, from my inmost soul I will give Him all the glory; the Lord gave me to see fruit; the Lord gave me to see fruit in abundance; sinners were converted by scores; and ever since God has used me in one way or other in His service.”

His testimony of how he came to believe the truth of God's Sovereignty follows,

“Being made willing to have no glory of my own in the conversion of sinners, but to consider myself merely as an instrument; and being made willing to receive what the Scriptures said; I went to the Word, reading the New Testament from the beginning, with a particular reference to these truths. To my great astonishment I found that the passages which speak decidedly for election and persevering grace, were about four times as many as those which speak apparently against these truths; and even those few, shortly after, when I had examined and understood them, served to confirm me in the above doctrines. As to the effect which my belief in these doctrines had on me, I am constrained to state, for God's glory, that though I am still exceedingly weak, and by no means so dead to the lusts of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, as I might and as I ought to be, yet, by the grace of God, I have walked more closely with Him since that period. My life has not been so variable, and I may say that I have lived much more for God than before. Thus, I say, the electing love of God in Christ (when I have been able to realize it) has often been the means of producing holiness, instead of leading me into sin.”

Yes! He (George) did it. Did what you ask? The very thing that you commend him for above. The very thing this thread is about. The very thing you and I and all ought to do. This is what you commend him for above when you stated, "I find it fascinating that George Muellers first step of Faith was to throw out the Commentary and to trust God for interpretation of Scripture."

And to quote George once more,

"...being made willing to receive what the Scriptures said; I went to the Word, reading the New Testament from the beginning..."

Soli Deo Gloria

Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Scriptura

 2012/8/25 9:15Profile





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