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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : When was the New Covenant made available to the human race?

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 Re:

Also, notice this passage:

Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, (Act 8:14-18)

These people in Samaria had already received the word of God concerning Jesus Christ. Tuc, if I take what your saying to be true, then these people could not be saved by their faith in Jesus. They had to wait until the apostles laid hands on them to receive the indwelling Spirit. Thus faith in Christ is not enough.. one must have faith plus the laying on of hands by an apostle to be saved. In other words, it makes the apostles the actual dispensers of salvation through the laying on of hands.

 2012/8/23 14:00









 Re:

This thread is about when the New Covenant was made available to the human race.

You are free to start a new thread about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and outward signs if you so wish.

The new Covenant is in reality Christ himself dwelling and living within the believer.

Col. 1:26-27, "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

Now how could the New Covenant start in John 20:22?
Christ is standing there. He had not yet been glorified.
He could NOT impart His very life to them at this time.

Thomas was not there when John 20:22 took place.

Peter had not yet been restored.

It is simple, no old testament Saint never knew the reality of Christ Himself dwelling and abiding in them. It was impossible.

I say again that the New Covenant did not start before the day of Pentecost.



 2012/8/23 14:28









 Re:

Hi Tuc,

You said: "You are free to start a new thread about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and outward signs if you so wish."

That wasn't my intent. What I wrote was just the logical conclusion of what you have stated. So the passage I quoted from Acts 8; do you think believers in Samaria who had believed Phillips preaching about Christ..... do you think they were saved when they believe or when the apostles laid hands on them to receive the Spirit. I'm trying to find out how this passage fits with what you are saying.

Thanks....

 2012/8/23 14:37









 Re:

The New Covenant was made available to all of mankind on the the day of Pentecost.

All I am saying is that no one in Samaria or anywhere else could ever experience the reality of Christ before that event.

If you have questions about Acts 8 please start a new thread.

 2012/8/23 14:49









 Re:

Hi Tuc,

If you don't want to answer the question, that's ok. When someone post a scripture or teaching regarding something they believe, there are always implications to what they believe. What I get from what you are saying is that what the disciples received at pentecost was the "infilling" of the Spirit and not the Baptism of the Spirit. You are saying that essentially the disciples were still "in their sins" until pentecost, as you state here:

"They could not yet participate in Christ's divine nature. Like all old testament saints their sins were only covered, not yet totally taken away."

Since you equate the receiving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost with the removal of sins...I'm trying to ask you to explain how this works. When I bring up Act's 8 it's in relation to this discussion and what you are putting forth. So I'm trying to understand if you think those in Acts 8, who have believe in Jesus Christ, were still in their sins until they received the Holy Spirit, which then removed their sins? Does that make sense? I'm trying to take what you say happened in Acts 2 with the disciples, and see how that is understood in the other accounts in Acts; particularly in Acts 8.

Again, I'm not diverting the topic or trying to start a new one, just trying to understand what you are saying. I apologize if my post came off as trying to divert your thread. Definitely wasn't my intention.

 2012/8/23 15:02









 Re:

Lets us look at The New Covenant

These Scriptures talk about the New Covenant.

Jer. 32:39-40, "I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me always, for their own good and for the good of their children after them. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good, and I will put the fear of me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from me."

Ezek. 36:25-27, "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean, I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. Moreover I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances."

Deut. 30:6, "And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou may live."

Jer. 24:7, "And I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart."

Jer. 31:31-34, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Ezek. 11:19-20 "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God."

Heb. 8:8b, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people."

Rom 6:3-7, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin."

The disciples like all old testament saints did have their sins covered but they were not totally taken away until the day of Pentecost.

No old testament saint could truly receive Christ Himself
living within them as a reality.

I do not consider the Disciples as true Christians because it was impossible for them to have Christ within them before.

Now Acts 8 took place after the day of Pentecost so the New Covenant was totally available to any person who beloved.

Look at Acts 15:8, "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

The Gentiles entered the New Covenant by faith and instantly received a new and clean heart.



 2012/8/23 15:32









 Re:

Look at what AbideinHim just posted

"The Christian life is not an imitation of Christ, but a direct new creation in Christ, and the union with Christ is so complete that He imparts His own nature to us and lives His own life in us. This, then, is not an imitation but simply the outgrowth of the nature implanted within.

We live Christlike because we have the Christ-life. God is not satisfied with anything less than perfection. He required that from His Son. He requires it from us, and He does not, in the process of grace, reduce the standard, but He brings us up to it. He does not let down the righteousness of the law, but He requires of us a righteousness that far exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, and then He imparts it to us. He counts us righteous in sanctification, and He says of the new creation, He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous (I John 3:7).

Lord, live out Thy very life in me."

This is true Christianity.

When do you say that this Christ-Life was made available to all of mankind?

*edit added statement

 2012/8/23 15:54
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Tuck wrote: """When do you say that this Christ-Life was made available to all of mankind?"""

Christ life was available at pentecost, but they did not comprehend it, that is why God chose Paul to reveal His Son in him and speak it to us to fulfill the word of God.


Christ life was not available until 50 days (Pentecost) after His ascention, then His prediction of not leaving us comfortless would come to pass. The Father answered The Son of Gods prayer and sent the Holy Spirit and Jesus also came to indwell the believer also, by Grace through Faith.

1 Corinthians 12:18-20 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

This could not have happened before Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The fulfillment of the Word of God came at Pentecost;

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Christ in you the hope of Glory is the foundation, hope and implimentation of The New Covenant. Which was hidden before Pentecost and only revealed Through Paul, even Peter had a hard time with this fulfillment of the Word. 2 Peter 3:14-18 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Paul 15 years after Christ was revealed in Him went up to Jerusalem to give this understanding to the Jewish Christians who believed in Christ but did not understand the mystery given to Paul. Paul is the answer of Pentecost and its purpose for the Body of Christ His Church, upon this Rock Jesus built and is building His Church.

It began at Pentecost and is still being built and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2012/8/23 17:55Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Hello,

I think we are making this a little bit harder than it needs to be. If you understand what a covenant is, the issue of when the new covenant was made becomes rather self-evident.

In the ancient world, a covenant is a relationship one enters into through the shedding of the blood of an animal. One does not "make" a covenant in some mere contractual sense, but one "cuts" a covenant. Thus, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, the new covenant was officially made.

Hebrews 9:18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. (NASB)

Knowing this then, that the new covenant was inaugurated with the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross, it becomes more evident that the outpouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost had nothing to do with the inauguration of the new covenant. Rather, the outpouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost was about empowering the church to be a prophetic community in the last days, to be a witness to this lost and dying world. It is something that was hoped for in Joel 2:28-32, and in the writings of other prophets such as Isaiah.

God bless,

Jimmy


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Jimmy H

 2012/8/23 21:02Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, good post,jimmy.jimp

 2012/8/23 22:40Profile





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