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elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

1. Workers of iniquity

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Matthew 7:22,23

Many will go to hell because they did not know Jesus as their personal Lord & Savior, even though they performed miracles, their heart was wicked and their life ungodly.

Its clear from this Scripture that someone in the name of Christ can perform and do all the things mentioned above and still be without the Spirit of holiness.


2. Supernatural gifts without agape love = nothing

"If I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1Corinthians 13:2

Prophesying or performing miracles its not a proof that you are a christian. Its the fruit of the Spirit that makes us like Christ in character and godly in life. God is love.



3. Holiness makes us fit for heaven

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14

Its personal holiness not power that really distinguishes us from pseudo-christians.


These verses from the Scriptures simply prove the possibility of exercising extraordirary charismata
(gifts)and still be found without the grace, love and holiness of Christ in out hearts.





_________________
Redi

 2012/8/21 8:18Profile









 Bearmaster and all

Quote:
And we wonder why the power of God Is being displayed in the third world and not in the west.




because we are too sleek and fat, because we can flick a switch and get electricity on demand, because we can take a thin plastic card, and swipe it thru a machine and walk away with rich food, that 85% (est) of the worlds population can only dream about.

because....we have the time and ease in Zion to fuss and argue on an internet forum.

(and dont think beloved, i'm cutting myself any slack, as i am more guilty than all)

but, patience, all this 'luxury' is going away in the 'west'.

as the LORD says,

"If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you,
how will you compete with horses?
And if in a safe land you are so trusting,
what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan?"

Jeremiah 12:6 (ESV)

this is not DIRECTED at you specifically Bear, but you do you know what i find so wearisome?

all this contention on an internet platform...anonymous and faceless. It's easy to thunder about on ANY internet discussion forum. and again i say, i have been more guilty than most, a sin that craters me in soul and heart.

if we were all face to face, like friends, would we address each other as such?...reason with each other as such?

One expects such dialogue on secular platforms....have any of you seen it? the comments after news articles?....poison keyboards, terrible...the pornography of the poisoned mind and dark heart.

we who have tasted of the Word of the LORD, should be different, peculiar, "look how they love one another".

again, i say Bear, my post here was not directed at you...or anyone in particular.....no. Its just that we have this marvelous resource at our disposal, and it seems we spend so much unprofitable time in contention, rather than encouraging one another...or loving one another, or in secret prayer.

maybe we would do well, to PRETEND, the saint we address is sitting next to us, because this forum is GLOBAL...this forum IS a "witness" and we should not despise it, but rather show the world, we are a 'look how they love one another' 'peculiar' people.

thats my prayer. neil

 2012/8/21 8:29
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Matthew 7:22,23

Many will go to hell because they did not know Jesus as their personal Lord & Savior, even though they performed miracles, their heart was wicked and their life ungodly.

Its clear from this Scripture that someone in the name of Christ can perform and do all the things mentioned above and still be without the Spirit of holiness.



There's something particularly interesting I always find about this passage. For a long time I held onto the same interpretation, with the ungodly performing miracles in His name, simply because of the power of His name and what it represents, despite the fact that the ones employing its use are unsaved. And in one sense, I still can see that interpretation/understanding as holding true to a degree.

There is something else to consider however. Note how Jesus never acknowledges/affirms their claims that He was the source of the miracles. He just tells them that He never knew them. I find that interesting. Especially considering the context and content of the verses directly before that were about false prophets. And even more interesting considering what Jesus said about false prophets later on in Matthew 24, and by what means they'd try to deceive the elect. I don't think the elect could be deceived by a lying sign and wonder done in anyone else's name than Jesus's. Do you?

 2012/8/21 8:42Profile









 "Everest"

not meaning to derail the thread, i do believe i must beg your forgiveness, because i THINK our last discourse was one of discord. please forgive me for any intemperate or sinful words, i am sorry.

also i pray for you now in Japan, these are very difficult times there, and i ask Jesus to lay His Hand over your heart and soul, may you bring forth much fruit, neil

 2012/8/21 8:50
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: "Everest"

It's cool, man. I try not to keep tabs (to the best of my ability :P), so you really have nothing to repent for (as I don't think that personally you and I have butted heads either). Your prayers means more to me than I can relate in text, however. Thank you.

-Grant

 2012/8/21 8:53Profile









 Bless you Grant

my brother, for your love and grace. i keep tabs, i KNOW my sins ALL too well......and sin unconfessed, unrepented for....remains...what it is...sin, a bad thing...and i believe that we must be honest and transparent with each other and MOST IMPORTANTLY before God, fearless and humble in confessing to one another, shining a brilliant light on the darkness of our own nature in the flesh, said Light, Jesus, and God the Holy Ghost.

so you and i made news in Heaven this morning...well morning here in the Driftless region of Wisconsin.

Grant, i know Japan, i posit it might be easier to preach the Gospel in Indonesia, or Nigeria, than Japan.

so, i will continue to pray for the Church in Japan, and you, my dear Grant, neil

 2012/8/21 9:32
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: Bless you Grant

Quote:
Grant, i know Japan, i posit it might be easier to preach the Gospel in Indonesia, or Nigeria, than Japan.



Tell me about it! It's the rockiest soil I've seen in my life. But there are cracks where the Seed can fall and take root. Your prayers are most appreciated.

 2012/8/21 9:43Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Quote from EverstoSama:

[b]There is something else to consider however. Note how Jesus never acknowledges/affirms their claims that He was the source of the miracles. He just tells them that He never knew them. I find that interesting. Especially considering the context and content of the verses directly before that were about false prophets. And even more interesting considering what Jesus said about false prophets later on in Matthew 24, and by what means they'd try to deceive the elect. I don't think the elect could be deceived by a lying sign and wonder done in anyone else's name than Jesus's. Do you?[b/]


Sorry for this late reply. What we know from this passage (Matthew 7:21-23) is that Jesus did not deny to this group of professing christians the reality of their miracles, healings, or casting out of demons. But he will judge them for being workers of iniquity and for being lawless, fruitless and ungodly in their life.

A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit, simple as that. They were unfaithful to God, disobeyed his greatest commandments of loving God with all their heart mind and soul and loving their neighbors as themselves. Jesus was not Lord of their lives and they did not walk in the light of God as he is in the light or live in a personal relationship with their Savior that resulted in a holy conversation and life.

They either did not have or did not persevere in the grace of God or endure to the end. I believe that some of those apostates from Hebrews 6 and 10 will be found in this group of people who were gifted with supernatural gifts, as we know from scriptures the gifts of God are without repentance.

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” —Matthew 7:21-23

These verses from the gosple of Matthew are very prophetic, especially for the end times. When there's gonna be a great falling away and apostasy. The elect of God who are conforming to the immage of Christ and living or walking in the Spirit, are the ones who God grants the gift of final perseverance. Those who backslide and turn away from Christ, denying him and his work on the cross and who never repent of their sins are the ones who are going to the broadway that leads to death and eternal seperation from God.

Jesus, Apostles and early church Fathers testify that a
true christian is someone who repents of his sins (and turns away from them), believes Jesus as his Lord and Savior, picks up his cross, denies himself to follow his Lord and to live a life wholly consecrated to Him and acceptable to God. To the early christians being a christian and a disciple of Christ meant the same thing.

There is a great contrast between the profesing christians and the faithful christians. The former may show a form of godliness but deny its power, may know and speak the right doctrines and be orthodox but void of experimental (heart) knowledge of God. They may be charismatic and have soulish power to sway the audiences and perform miracles but their heart is empty of the sanctifying grace of God or without the true anointing of the Spirit.

In 1 Kings 19 : 12 & 13 the Lord was not in the great and strong wind, not in the earthquake, or in the fire but in a still small voice. It is those who hear and obey the voice of the Spirit and the Word of God who are truly christians, not those who perform signs and wonders but walk in the flesh.

11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice


- edited



_________________
Redi

 2012/8/23 17:22Profile









 Re:


Good points, elected, regarding the great falling away or apostasy.

Also see what EverestoSama is saying by that one word "Never" - ουδεποτε G3763

Strong's - From G3761 [not] and G4218 [ever]; not even at any time, that is, never at all: - neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.


He, in His omniscient foreknowledge, knew before the foundation of the earth, those that would be "faithful unto the end".


2Ti 2:19-21 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His.
And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


I know that we all would love to be able to perform the miracles of transforming tares into wheat and goats into sheep -- do you think it's possible? I'd like to think so.

Or to share some oil with those that didn't store up while they could.

And pray that we all, myself included, [Luke 21:36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape [flee out of] all these things that shall come to pass,
*and to stand before the Son of man.



Amen, to you both for your posts.

 2012/8/24 3:22
scotsbaker
Member



Joined: 2004/4/4
Posts: 19
England.

 Re:

deltadom makes the assumption that everyone who does Healing On The Streets in the UK neither knows the true gospel nor preaches it.

I go out regularly doing Healing On The Streets and always will try to give the gospel to whoever will listen.

See my website whatisthegospeldotorgdotuk which clearly illustrates the biblical gospel preached by both Peter and Paul in the New Testament.


_________________
Brian Johnson

 2012/10/10 4:21Profile





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