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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : An interesting fact

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Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah


"Where two or more are gathered [b]in my name[/b]"


"Where two or more are gathered [b]at this place or that[/b]."

[i]In My Name[/i] is the key. Men and women in prisons have some of the greatest meetings. Duncan Campbell in the chapel had spectacular meetings as well. I've had some great meetings in school hallways before! As long as it is in His Name.

In Christ,

[size=xx-small]PS- But, I do say that there are some places not wise to meet in, for reasons of impracticality, spiritual opposition, or having an appearance of wrong. Just to make myself clear![/size]

Eli Brayley

 2005/6/28 13:22Profile

Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada



Stevenl Said:
However, the fruit of the traditional church has already proved itself. I think anyone who can understand language and face reality can see this.

Brother Steven, that was an "interesting" preamble. By describing any contrary opinions up front as being "only held by people who cannot understand language or face reality" you suggest an authority or command of the issue that wasn't demonstrated or warranted by the post that followed it. :-)

Normally, when a person makes a broad statement such as saying that traditional churches are unbiblical - one follows up that claim with some sort of proof. In this case, one would need to show two things - first it would have to be shown that the bible gives us clear commands about how we are to organize ourselves, and secondly, and perhaps most poignantly, it would have to be shown that the way in which a "traditional church" organizes itself contradicts scripture.

No one will deny that there is much room for improvement in the modern church. But the same was so in new testament times (consider that 5 of the 7 churches named in the book Revelation were commanded by Christ to repent). Christ didn't go after their organizational structure - He went after the problem - they weren't following God, they were "playing church" - and they needed to repent of wearing the name without walking the walk.

Your post was a barbed criticism of the traditional church structure, but failed to demonstrate in what way the bible actually condemns the traditional church?

I can't help but recall a passage from Psalm 106:

"Then they despised the pleasant land;
They did not believe His word,
But complained in their tents,
And did not heed the voice of the LORD.
Therefore He raised His hand in an oath against them,
To overthrow them in the wilderness,"

I hope that we all learn the futility of sitting in our tents and complain about the Lord's church. God is able to make it stand.

Grace brother,


Daniel van de Laar

 2005/6/28 15:19Profile

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


I have been especially involved with the 'house church movement' for 35 years now. The pattern has gone from homes to hired halls to owned meeting halls and all the way back again. The church first developed in homes and I suspect it may well end in homes. The essence is not the location; neither in this mountain nor yet in Jerusalem. The essence is the worship of God in spirit and in truth. This may occur in groups of 2 or 3 or congregations of 1500. I have experienced the sweetest God-consciousness in homes and in large conferences. I have also experienced the dead hand of formality in both.

On balance, I believe small meetings in homes are more condusive to 'worshipping the Father in spirit and in truth' but small numbers and simple surroundings are no guarantee of God's presence.

Ron Bailey

 2005/6/29 5:57Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776

 Re: fellowship - why does it never get right

What took place in the time period between point a & point b? What significance does that have for us today in the body of Christ?

This was the original question, and, I believe, a very good one, because it leads us to an examination of ourselves - hopefully in order that we may become better Christians.

We Chrisians fail to produce the ideal fellowship because we fail to keep the greatest commandment - loving God with our ENTIRE being, and loving others as we love ourselves. We fail to examine our own hearts. This is just part of our fallen nature - We are no different than those in the first church.

To believe that a brand new-born group of believers could suddenly be fully mature is fairytale thinking. It also exposes our weak understanding of the human nature. A lot of our struggles exist because we won't admit our own depravity. We want the "ideal" church now, and we will bite and scratch each other in order to get it.

You may want to check this one out - for some more thoughts on fellowship:

[url=]Forsake not the fellowship[/url] THe best part of this article is the picture at the beginning.


 2005/6/29 7:26Profile

Joined: 2003/6/13
Posts: 210
Southern California


Just wanted to throw out a very good book i have just read on the subject. I highly recommend it to you, brothers and sisters.

"The Problem of Wineskins Today - The church structure in the technological age" by Howard A. Snyder

I'd love to hear if any of you have read this book and any feedback you might have.


 2005/6/29 9:08Profile

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