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UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Curse or Bless?

Question,

Did Job's wife say: "Curse God and die", or "Bless God and die"?


Please look before you answer. Also I am interested in those of you who have Bibles in languages other than English, what does your Bible say?


_________________
Fifi

 2012/8/17 14:03Profile









 Re: Curse or Bless?


That's a good question, UntoBabes. Appreciate the threads you bring out.

The question is a hard one and all I know to do is to see how else some particular word is used elsewhere.

This word, as you know is, H1288, בּרך bârak -
total in the KJV = Occurrences: 324 as --

blessed, 176
Gen_1:22, Gen_1:28, Gen_2:3, Gen_5:2, Gen_9:1, Gen_9:26, Gen_12:3, Gen_17:19-20 (4), Gen_22:18 (2), Gen_24:1, Gen_24:27, Gen_24:31, Gen_24:35, Gen_24:48, Gen_24:60, Gen_25:11, Gen_26:4, Gen_26:12, Gen_26:29, Gen_27:23, Gen_27:27 (2), Gen_27:29, Gen_27:33 (2), Gen_27:41, Gen_28:1, Gen_28:6 (2), Gen_28:14, Gen_30:27, Gen_30:30, Gen_31:55, Gen_32:29, Gen_35:9, Gen_39:5, Gen_47:7, Gen_47:10, Gen_48:3, Gen_48:15, Gen_48:20, Gen_49:28 (2), Exo_20:10-11 (2), Exo_39:43, Lev_9:22-23 (2), Num_22:6, Num_22:12, Num_23:11, Num_23:20, Num_24:9-10 (2), Deu_2:7, Deu_7:14, Deu_12:7, Deu_14:24, Deu_15:14, Deu_16:10, Deu_28:3-6 (6), Deu_33:1, Deu_33:13, Deu_33:20, Deu_33:24, Jos_17:13-14 (2), Jos_22:6-7 (2), Jos_22:33, Jos_24:10, Jdg_13:24 (3), Jdg_17:2, Rth_2:19-20 (2), Rth_3:10, Rth_4:14, 1Sa_2:20, 1Sa_15:13, 1Sa_23:21, 1Sa_25:32-33 (3), 1Sa_25:39, 1Sa_26:25, 2Sa_2:5, 2Sa_6:11-12 (2), 2Sa_6:18, 2Sa_7:29, 2Sa_13:25, 2Sa_18:28, 2Sa_19:39, 2Sa_22:47, 1Ki_1:48, 1Ki_2:45, 1Ki_5:7, 1Ki_8:14-15 (2), 1Ki_8:55-56 (2), 1Ki_8:66, 1Ki_10:9, 1Ch_13:14, 1Ch_16:2, 1Ch_16:36, 1Ch_17:27, 1Ch_26:5, 1Ch_29:10 (2), 1Ch_29:20, 2Ch_2:12, 2Ch_6:3-4 (2), 2Ch_9:8, 2Ch_30:26-27 (2), 2Ch_31:8, 2Ch_31:10, Ezr_7:27, Neh_8:6, Neh_9:5, Neh_11:2, Job_1:10, Job_1:21, Job_31:20, Job_42:12, Psa_18:46, Psa_28:6, Psa_37:21-22 (2), Psa_41:13, Psa_45:2, Psa_49:18, Psa_66:20, Psa_68:19, Psa_68:35, Psa_72:17-19 (3), Psa_89:52, Psa_106:48, Psa_113:2 (2), Psa_115:15, Psa_118:26 (2), Psa_119:12, Psa_124:6, Psa_128:4, Psa_135:21, Psa_144:1, Psa_147:13, Pro_5:18, Pro_20:21, Pro_22:9, Isa_19:25, Isa_51:2, Isa_61:9, Isa_65:23, Isa_66:3, Jer_17:7, Jer_20:14, Eze_3:12, Zec_11:5

bless, 116
Gen_12:2-3 (3), Gen_22:16-17 (3), Gen_26:3, Gen_26:24, Gen_27:4, Gen_27:7, Gen_27:10, Gen_27:19, Gen_27:25, Gen_27:31, Gen_27:34, Gen_27:38, Gen_28:3, Gen_32:26, Gen_48:9, Gen_48:16, Gen_48:20, Gen_49:25, Exo_12:32, Exo_23:24-25 (2), Num_6:23-24 (2), Num_6:27, Num_23:20, Num_23:25, Num_24:1, Deu_1:11, Deu_7:13 (2), Deu_8:10, Deu_10:8, Deu_14:29, Deu_15:4, Deu_15:10, Deu_15:18, Deu_16:15, Deu_21:5, Deu_23:20, Deu_24:13, Deu_24:19, Deu_26:15, Deu_27:12, Deu_28:8, Deu_28:12, Deu_29:19, Deu_30:16, Deu_33:11, Jos_8:33, Jdg_5:9, Rth_2:4, 1Sa_9:13, 2Sa_6:20, 2Sa_7:29, 2Sa_8:10, 2Sa_21:3, 1Ki_1:47, 1Ch_4:10, 1Ch_16:43, 1Ch_17:27, 1Ch_23:13, 1Ch_29:20, Neh_9:5, Psa_5:12, Psa_16:7, Psa_26:12, Psa_28:9, Psa_29:11, Psa_34:1, Psa_63:4 (2), Psa_66:8, Psa_67:1, Psa_67:6-7 (2), Psa_68:26, Psa_96:2, Psa_100:4, Psa_103:1-2 (2), Psa_103:20-22 (4), Psa_104:1, Psa_104:35, Psa_109:28, Psa_115:12-13 (4), Psa_115:18, Psa_128:5, Psa_129:8, Psa_132:15, Psa_134:1-3 (3), Psa_135:19-20 (4), Psa_145:1-2 (2), Psa_145:10, Psa_145:21, Pro_30:11, Isa_19:25, Isa_65:16, Jer_4:2, Jer_31:23, Hag_2:19

blesseth, 8
Gen_27:29, Num_24:9, Deu_15:6, Psa_10:3, Psa_107:38, Pro_3:33, Pro_27:14, Isa_65:16

salute, 4
1Sa_13:10, 1Sa_25:14, 2Ki_4:29 (2)

blessest, 3
Num_22:6, 1Ch_17:27, Psa_65:10

curse, 3
Job_1:10-11 (2), Job_2:5, Job_2:9

blaspheme, 2
1Ki_21:10, 1Ki_21:13

kneel, 2
Gen_24:11, Psa_95:6

abundantly, 1
Psa_132:15

blessing, 1
Gen_22:17

congratulate, 1
1Ch_18:10

cursed, 1
Job_1:5

down, 1
Gen_24:11

kneeled, 1
2Ch_6:13

praise, 1
Jdg_5:2

praised, 1
Psa_72:15

saluted, 1
2Ki_10:15

thanked, 1
2Sa_14:22



The answer is, we don't really know the answer unless, maybe we apply another rule - is to see how the particular author of each seperate book used the word and maybe if we look at how it is used in this book Job, we'll see how that author used it?

Looking forward to see what you and others find.
Very interesting thread, UntoBabes. Thanks!

 2012/8/17 14:21
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: Curse or Bless?

Hi, UntoBabes!

I checked the passage in Job and found the following:

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV):

Job 2:9 - "Curse God, and die"
(Yet, there is a superscript next to the word "Curse" which reads in the footnote that the word "Curse" in the Hebrew translation is intepreted "Bless").

Hmmm? Interesting observation, "UntoBabes"!

We should refer this to Jesus-Is-God, as she is a lexical expert. It would be interesting to gain her insight on this passage.

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/8/17 14:24Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re:

Hopefully, Jesus-Is-God will read this post and respond with her input.

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/8/17 14:25Profile









 Re:


I read your post KP and LOL. Bless you much! You are a blessing here to us all.

I'm not an expert anything but merely somehow managed to learn how to navigate the e-sword. :o)

Thank you for the giggles.
You're a prize and I/we love you!

 2012/8/17 14:30
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Thank you both so much, appreciate the fast and thorough response.

So, how would you interpret it JiG?
You listed the meaning of the word in the book of Job:

Job_1:10, Job_1:21, Job_31:20, Job_42:12, to mean " bless"

and Job_1:10-11 (2), Job_2:5, Job_2:9 to mean " curse"

Personally I have a hard time believing that she said to curse God and die. What do you think?


_________________
Fifi

 2012/8/17 15:02Profile









 Re:


Yes, it is hard to believe, so we'll look at context ...

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.


Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, ""Dost thou STILL *retain thine integrity*? either bless or curse God, And *DIE.""

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.



Nice wife, eh? Looks like Satan got into her mouth as well as poor Job's body.

I think whether she said "bless or curse" doesn't quite matter because her 'heart' is exposed in her question.

Job later says - Job 19:17 My breath is strange [H2114] to my wife, though I intreated for the [our] children's sake of mine own body.



It's just like the Devil to kick us when we're down and to use those closest to us to try to get us to feel that we're a waste of oxygen or worse.

This is not a loving wife but I've seen wives of sick men that are like this and this topic sure could bring tears.


Blessings to you, Friend!

 2012/8/17 15:24









 Re: Yeah but :)

Just before his wife mocked in question of his integrity ... see what The LORD said of Job's integrity ...

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
**and still he 'holdeth fast' his integrity,**
although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.


- compare to - "Dost thou STILL *retain thine integrity*?"


GOD's words above were said to Satan in vs 2:3 -- so no coincidence that the enemy would use those exact words in an attack on the man, on the very thing that GOD praised about him. Satan hates what GOD loves.


MamaMia!

We're learning spiritual warfare, thanks to your thread.
Thanks! :)

 2012/8/17 15:44
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:


By all means I am not saying she was a good wife.
She might have suggested that he would take his own life and end his misery and that would explain his answer to her that she was speaking as fool, but I still think she did not say "curse God".

In any case, appreciate your knowledgeable insights Jesus-is-God. You are a real help .

I am also trying to understand the nature of these ancient languages and why would something like that occur, that is, when a word can mean exactly the opposite.


_________________
Fifi

 2012/8/17 15:46Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re:

Why are you giggling, Jesus-Is-God? I learn so much from your posts and have dowloaded E-sword onto my desktop. It is a most excellent tool for those like me, who struggle with interpretation.

UntoBabes, I was reviewing the passage again. When I consider the context of the conversation which takes place between Job and his wife in Job 2:9-10, it makes sense that his wife would say and mean "Curse God, and die". Look at the negative sarcasm in her tone. And then look at the question she asks Job, "Do you still persist in your integrity?" (Job 2:9).

Next, I had another look at Job's admonishing response to his wife's statement - which indicates that she must have uttered something offensive, as he replies, "You speak as any foolish woman would speak. Shall we receive the good at the hand of God, and not receive the bad?" (Job 2:10).

Then the Lord concludes this encounter with his estimating narration, "In all [this] Job did not [sin with his lips]" (Job 2:10 - brackets inserted). His wife's statement was relfected the temptation for Job to "sin with his lips".

If she was "blessing" God, then it would not make sense that Job would be so offended or inspired to call her "foolish" - as he was a man of faith. Also, if she was "blessing" God, why would God associate her utterance with the possibility for Job to "sin with his lips"?

I'm only looking at the passage from the perspective of what would make sense in everyday conversation. Looking at Job's response, he appeared to be offended just as much by the reflection of his wife's statement upon God's nature or what Job refers to as "the hand of God" (Job 2:10), as his own life.

Thank you for inspiring us to search the scriptures. God's Word is so much fun!

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/8/17 15:48Profile





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