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learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
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 John 14:21 question

John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."


Some time ago I was looking at a clip of Tim Conway answering a question and he was saying that God will manifest himself to those that obey and pray. I can't remember which verse he quoted (maybe John 14:21 or some other verses).

Anyway, what I'm curious is how does Jesus manifest himself to these believers? Do you actually see a 'person' or feel a presence? For me so far, the witness is from the heart but I've never 'seen a person'. I remembered AMRKelly mentioning that when he was saved, he was transported onto Jesus's lap.

Any feedback? Thks


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geraldine

 2012/8/16 2:31Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
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 Re: John 14:21 question

alot could be said about this verse

it may be that he was talking about his aperance after his resarectiuon to certaint people ,,,

peter said tho having not seen him ,you believe ,and rejoyce with a joy inexpsable full of glory

i think it was peter ,,,so i dont think vissions of jesus are certaint for all believers ,neither to valadate obedance

it may also be the promise of the baptisim of the spirit

the spirit of christ
the spirit is the lord ,and where the lord is there is liberty


maby those with the gift of prophecy see these types of vissions


blessings

 2012/8/16 6:52Profile









 Re: John 14:21 question

Quote:
……how does Jesus manifest himself to these believers? Do you actually see a 'person' or feel a presence? For me so far, the witness is from the heart but I've never 'seen a person'. I remembered AMRKelly mentioning that when he was saved, he was transported onto Jesus's lap. Leasrn.



My testimony which you may have referred to doesn’t have anything to do with what Tim Conway may have been sharing. No vision or revelation no matter how clear does not constitute obedience to God, neither do they have anything to do with keeping the Lord’s commandment to love Him by being obedient. In fact all such visions and revelations should be viewed in privacy of one’s own walk. In short they are a matter of God’s mercy as well as His guiding and keeping an individual. In my case the experience of knowing the Lord Jesus in this way was a direct asking to the Father the moment I believed in the Father,” who is Christ?” My condition at that time was appalling and even today my natural inclinations of the flesh are always against God. It grieves me but it is true.

You have shared that you know the witness from your heart. You may not realise it but this is more precious than any vision or revelation.

The passage which you have referred to as possibility the one Tim shared does however promise something really special. This has to do with that which goes beyond a simple witness of our hearts concerning The Father and The Lord Jesus, but is something which arises out of true obedience in our daily walk. No outward measure can “prove” our obedience; it is only of the heart arising unto obedience as seen by God and not men. Just about everything which could be said to be obedience to God could be false. It could all be just self-effort and self-deception as well as falseness both of the heart and towards others. We may not even be aware that our hearts are capable of being this way. But if we truly desire to know God and Christ then we will also be inclined to seek Him through obedience. God Himself will reveal our hearts true condition along the way and though it will cause us to weep, we will know more of God through it and find that we are more willing to obey God in it, having come to see it. Asking God to sift our hearts is probably the best way to begin that true obedience which will be pleasing to The Father and Christ and will result in our knowing The Father and The Son more perfectly because The Father and The Son will reveal themselves to us according to the promise of Scripture.

 2012/8/16 8:50
learn
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 Re:

Thanks all. I can't find the Tim Conway clip anymore as I can't remember the title. The question was from someone who loves Jesus a lot and wanted to know more about Him etc. So Tim Conway was saying (gist) if you obey and pray, Jesus will manifest himself to you and you will have such assurance. He sort of implies (if I remember correctly) that the closer you walk with God, the more you will know God personally.
--

I just found another clip which is even better which tells what it means. Thank you Armkelly for making me look further. Very happy to see that clip. Just wanted to say 'wow' about the unknown Christian lady's experience with the Lord in the clip. She really is loved by God.

Experiencing Manifestations of the Love of Christ - Tim Conway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8JTmTxAuJY

ETA
Sorry, I think this would be a better one

How does the Spirit bear witness that we are Children of God? - Tim Conway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulHOus_R50&playnext=1&list=PLD86FD6BC3D05350B&feature=results_main




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geraldine

 2012/8/16 9:30Profile
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 Re: John 14:21 question

Quote:

John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."



Jesus said I am the way and no one can come to the father except through me. So to come to him we should have a revelation of the life of Jesus. That is possible only when he reveals himself to us. I believe that is what this verse means, to get a revelation about the life of Jesus which is now the way for us to follow him.

Jesus also said that blessed are those who do not see me but still believe. So I would consider such a faith that comes from internal revelation of Jesus as much more blessed (higher standard) than anyone claiming seeing Jesus. Not that I do not believe in them but I do not consider it special.


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Sreeram

 2012/8/16 10:49Profile
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 Re:

[by Sree on 2012/8/16 7:49:24
So I would consider such a faith that comes from internal revelation of Jesus as much more blessed (higher standard) than anyone claiming seeing Jesus]

[by amrkelly on 2012/8/16 5:50:13
You have shared that you know the witness from your heart. You may not realise it but this is more precious than any vision or revelation]

Ok, after seeing the Tim Conway's clips, I would like to clarify that mine is exceptionally paltry (very little)


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geraldine

 2012/8/16 10:56Profile
onemite
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 Re: John 14:21 question

Learn-

Oh,If I could only put the things in my heart to words! This is, I believe, such a truly deep subject! It is the very heart of what Jesus desired us to know about Himself and the Father, and of what abiding is.
I have so many scriptures in my mind, and I do not have the time or confidence to organize them. Jesus came to save His people from their sins... and He was manifest to destroy the works of the devil.
I have not had "an experience" of seeing Jesus with eyes, but I have "seen" glimpses of Him in my heart through His life in me as I have put off my own will for His... Small movements of being moved from glory to glory as I run the race of that upward call of God in Christ which have caused me to know His love,gentleness and mercy a little more in my heart which is a little more revelation of Himself.
This is what I will continue doing till He calls me home because I know that His will for me is that I be conformed to the image of Jesus and this is done through His revealing Himself to me in me.

I hope this makes some sense. :) I will try more later.
Sincerely,
Onemite

 2012/8/16 11:34Profile
learn
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 Re:

Onemite,
Pls do share the scriptures. You can just put down the bible verse only if it takes too long to type.

I'm very happy to see that you experienced Jesus. Pls do participate more in the forum. Looking forward to 'talking' more with you


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geraldine

 2012/8/16 18:30Profile
onemite
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 Re:

Thank you, learn.
I am in agreement with what the others before me wrote.
I hadn't seen Sree's post because I think we were probably both replying simultaneously.

John 14:21
"Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

When I first started seeking to please the Lord wholeheartedly, that was one of the verses that I got stuck on. I kept asking "What commands did Jesus give????"
The first thing I noticed that Jesus saying was,"Follow me!"

The verse that for me, sums up what He asks from us is in Matt 16:“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." This is speaking of forsaking our will for His.

1 John 2:6
"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."

Jesus lived his entire life on earth submitting to the Father. The bible says he was tempted on every issue just as we are so we know that He was always at war against his own will, yet never sinned.

However, our attempts at forsaking inward sins fail unless we are born again, having received His Spirit who leads us on the narrow path that Jesus walked.He described the way to us in Matthew 5,6 and 7. His life on earth paved the way. His blood gained our entrance to the throne of grace where God gives victory.

Jesus reveals himself to us through the Holy Spirit who abides in us as we yield our will to Him. It is in this we can say what is said in Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said to him, 'If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.'"

So what is it to keep His word again? What are his commands?
I think they are:
"Follow Me!" They are the steps that keep us walking that narrow path that leads to life which is a person- and we cannot so much as walk it unless it is the life of Christ in us doing the work.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

 2012/8/16 21:17Profile
SonsofLevi
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Joined: 2008/10/21
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 Re: John 14:21 question

For those who have experienced this, there is no reason to describe the experience. For those who have not, it is impossible to describe. Only believe.


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R. Evan Gombach

 2012/8/16 21:39Profile





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