SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Public Rebuke of Sermon Index and False Teaching

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 536
America's Flyover Country

 Re:

Righteousnew states

Quote:
Our security is in Christ alone. BUT THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT TEACH FAITH ALONE. For faith apart from works is dead........and.... While his answer may seem correct, it is in fact 100% wrong and misleading.




Evidently The book of James is not in agreement with your conclusions. It is the other side of the mountain.... but God's truth none the less.
Quote:

You see that a person IS considered righteous BY WHAT THEY DO AND NOT FAITH ALONE.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute CONSIDERED RIGHTEOUS FOR WHAT SHE DID when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? James 2:24-25



Righteousnew states
Quote:
I am rebuking because he has said that "salvation is not by faith alone"



So.... you are in essence rebuking Sermonindex for quoting the book of James verbatim! This seems especially true when the entire post is read in context.

Brother Tom is right as was the original post by Sermonindex. You are only seeing one side of the mountain brother.... it is simply bigger than your currently understanding appears to be on it.

If it bothers you so terribly then go start your own website and post what you wish. However, to come a site provided by Sermonindex, and attack them them on their own site, is entirely inappropriate. IMHO.

 2012/8/5 17:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am rebuking because he has said that "salvation is not by faith alone" I said this at the beginning of my post. RighteousNew



Yes I understood what you have said. But a rebuke is a matter of authority especially when it involves rebuking a brother who has declared that he is in a ministry in obedience to the leading of God. It is possible to question and even challenge effectually without actually rebuking. At least you have understood that your words are a rebuke. I wonder if you understand also that by doing it you present yourself to God Himself as one in authority. Otherwise your rebuke is just personal. If it is personal then it lacks the substance of real authority. If it is not then you bring yourself into judgement because all authority belongs to God.

 2012/8/5 17:58
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
I am rebuking because he has said that "salvation is not by faith alone" I said this at the beginning of my post.


The trouble with brief clips of words is that they cannot adequately and fully convey one’s thoughts, values, beliefs, motives etc. It’s easy to read something into them that in fact the writer does not intend. That has happened to me a few times here. And I think that is what's happening with you.

It is far more effective to avoid taking a determined offensive position and first get to know the person who wrote the questionable statement. Then you can understand more clearly how they think - if you are a good listener.


Please visit my “Slaying the Mighty Giant” thread. I just posted a list of verses from Thessalonians, and you will see how works and FAITH are indeed related... and how I'm sure my brother actually intends to be understood.

Edit: comment removed

See you there.

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2012/8/5 18:02Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re: Public Rebuke of Sermon Index and False Teaching


What is wrong with works?
Faith alone does not save, and works alone do not save, but faith that expresses itself in works. At the judgement seat we are not judged by our faith or doctrine we believed but by works we wrought in faith.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 2012/8/5 18:15Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

We are saved by faith, not works. But we aren't saved unless our faith works.


_________________
Todd

 2012/8/5 18:25Profile









 Saved by Faith not works; but not saved unless our faith works!

"We are saved by faith, not works. But we aren't saved unless our faith works." TMK

Bravo TMK. Paul could not have outdone ya! I'm smilin' again.

It's called obedience to the Spirit and following the Lamb; this is faith that works and the works of faith all bundled up in one sheepskin.

"Brevity is the soul of wit." Watkins:2:20

[ Haven't got any of the rest of it down too well, yet...]BT

 2012/8/5 18:51
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re: Public Rebuke of Sermon Index and False Teaching

Dear soul,

How do I say this,..?...and please study....and consider ..

Can we look at the word ' FAITH' as it's very first use in the Word with Abraham ,?
God told Abram,to take his only son and to kill him.....did he not have
child-like faith ?,....straightway the next morning, Abram went in obedience
to God. ...Faith : hearing ,He believed it was God' voice / Word obeying.

* Grace is,..(1) 'The Devine inffluence upon the heart,' (the Devine drawing of us to God).....remember how His Spirit drawed you /me in the
beginning ?
(2) ' and it's reflection in the Life' ( the doing of the Word )

* the Gospel: is ' the gospel of the kingdom' (Jesus said,....'This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached though- out the whole world )
And what Jesus preached was ALL of what He had to say,...about how we are to live / walk in His kingdom,...recieving His Spirit and obeying.

'' For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, ...they are the sons / children of God"

_ you said, " .....are going to be in grave trouble with the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords"

* A / The King,.....over a Kingdom...over the Kingdom of God / heaven
* Lord: ( my Lord ) ....meaning He rules,..
.
Haven't we been called / drawed into His Kingdom ?

dear one,please do not brush this off,PLEASE PRAYERFULLY do consider.

In caring kindness,
Elizabeth






 2012/8/5 19:06Profile









 Re: Public Rebuke of Sermon Index and False Teaching

Righteousnew, I think you may have mistaken the intent of whoever was speaking that you are challenging here, and also that you have misunderstood the idea of faith alone. I believe sermonindex holds firmly to the belief that we are justified, sanctified and will be glorified by the finished work and the mighty hand of God...that not of ourselves, lest any man should boast.
I think you may be a bit muddled about what faith is, and that may be your confusion. I went to my husband for help, and here is what he said:

To borrow a phrase from John Calvin, faith is “being steadfast on Him (God)” no matter the circumstances.
Faith (GR: pistis) is defined by Strong’s Concordance as a “conviction of the truth of anything”.  Unfortunately if we use just that definition we will be tempted to misinterpret Heb 11:6a (as well as most of Scripture).  By using just this definition and not exploring further has opened the door for some to have faith in faith, or faith in prayer, or even faith in the season of Christmas (Spiritual Naturalism) to bring them peace.  Since each of these ultimately places faith in human works or the creations of man, none can bring pleasure to God (Prov 16: 25There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.).  The writer of Hebrews realized the danger and went on to define what he meant by faith in the second part of the verse.
Heb 11:6b for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
To define “faith”, the author of Hebrews (Note: Throughout this text, it should be assumed that this means “the author being lead by the Holy Spirit”) introduces two phrases: “believe that He is” and (believe that He is the) “rewarder of those who seek Him”.
Believe (GR: pisteuo), is defined as “to entrust, commit, to be impelled to action by a certain prerogative.” (Note: the Greek word for “believe” is the same root word used for “faith”.)  Just a quick review of the English language will show that we have diluted (or polluted) the meaning of the Biblical phrase “to believe.”  In our thoughts and conversations we can just as easily say “I believe the sun will rise in the East”, as well as say “I believe I will win the lottery” .....  This type of belief is based on empirical (derived from or guided by experience, reason, or experiment) facts.
The Biblical word for belief carries the additional meaning of an exclusive commitment that impels one to action.  Biblical belief/faith requires us to not only accept the single Source (excluding all others Ex. 20:3) based on empirical facts (Rom 1:20) and Spiritual (non-empirical) hope (Heb 11:1), but it also requires us to submit to and take action based on the directives of the Source of our faith which is God (CF Rom 12:3)
Faith without works is only imaginary. (CF James 2:26)
“Faith is not belief without proof, but trust (to do) without reservation.” D. Elton Trueblood


 2012/8/5 19:13
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I read the following response from the moderator in regards to the initial thread question of "Are we justified by faith alone?":

"Our security is in Christ alone. BUT THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT TEACH FAITH ALONE. For faith apart from works is dead. Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness. Faith also needs to have a voice we need to confess Christ before others. Faith also needs to rest and trust daily and be reckoned upon." (quote from sermonindex: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45297&forum=36&55 )


While his answer may seem correct, it is in fact 100% wrong and misleading. This is the false gospel spoken of explicitly in Galatians, and the other epistles.



RighteousNow, brother because you addressed this to me personally I will respond personally and I hope I can clarify these things for you. I do share the caution a few brothers here alluded to in "rebuking" It is not our job to rebuke men especially in christian leadership in local churches, the scriptures tell us to go to the elders with 2-3 witnesses and trying to think the best of them before seeing what their true meaning or motive was. The internet is full of blogs that just accuse and trying to demean men before even meeting them or trying to come to them privately. Such things are causing damage in the body of Christ and not helping. This is a very good clip of brother Paul Washer sharing about this problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVN4R6Vi80

here is my quote that you are speaking about:

Quote:
"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." - James 2:24

"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:37

"and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Romans 3:24

"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." - Romans 3:28

"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," - Romans 5:1

"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" - Romans 5:9

In the above passages I believe it is clearly stated in scriptures.

1. We are justified by faith that comes along with works. If works are not present in a faith that it is not true faith. It is not the works that save someone but the true faith that is active with works. James 2:24

2. Jesus taught that we are justified by our words, with our mouth of confession of believing in His Name, he will mention us before the Father and His holy angels. Faith is therefore not silent it speaks. Matthew 12:37

3. It is also taught in scriptures that we are justified as a free gift that cannot be earned. It is 100% free and can only be accepted and acted upon. Romans 3:24

4. The works of the law will never justify any. So we must be justified apart from the law and its works. Therefore our justification looks to Christ who came as a new covenant, new promise to us from God. Romans 3:28

5. We are justified through faith. So it is not a one time belief that saves us but our justification is based upon a continual believing in Christ and His redemption until the end. We cannot ever be free from needing His grace. Romans 5:1

6. We have been justified and make righteous to God through the blood of Christ. And we will be saved from the coming wrath and judgment of God as we abide in Christ and His atonement for us which will produce an active faith daily. Romans 5:9

Our security is in Christ alone. But the scriptures do not teach faith alone. For faith apart from works is dead. Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness. Faith also needs to have a voice we need to confess Christ before others. Faith also needs to rest and trust daily and be reckoned upon.



I stated: "Our security is in Christ alone." I believe this whole-heartily only Christ saves, only He is our security. It is His blood that cleanses and saves us from our sins only.

"But the scriptures do not teach faith alone." there is no specific scripture that states we are saved by "Faith alone" this does not mean we are not saved by faith but rather we need to see what the scripture says clearly on this subject.

"Faith" is not just a belief of a doctrine or a mental assent. Faith means a believing of something that is not seen and living as if it was. Thus biblical faith does not see Christ but believes He is seen and lives as if it was so. Having faith in the blood and "finished work of Christ" always acts upon it in daily life, it is not just a mental assent to such.

"Faith also needs to be active for demons have faith but do not live in righteousness." This is an important biblical idea that demons know God is true, they know Christ is the son of God for they confessed him readily on earth. They confessed that paul the apostle was preaching the way of salvation. But demons do not obey God, that belief does not regenerate them because they do not want to love and obey God.

My friend, I trust the Lord will encourage you as you read the word to see the truths of scripture that even preachers do not preach. Faith will produce a change of a life of works and if a believer is not becoming holy then he is not born of God no matter how much theology he knows or confesses.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/8/5 19:55Profile
joliboy11
Member



Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 208
Philippines

 Re: Public Rebuke of Sermon Index and False Teaching

Yes, I new churches who are like the Galatians - it just leads to legalism and bondage and not to holiness.

But sermonindex is not like that,
If we take alone the Book of James, it will cost a problem... James believe in salvation by faith alone. Faith Alone in Christ..

read Hebrews 11.

Salvation is not faith + works(by this I'm not talking just about the Law of Moses but other non-Biblical teaching). Even something 'biblical' can be use in legalism.

What Paul's warning to Galatians in verse 3 is very serious but again, sermonindex in not like that...

"to paraphrase Thomas a Kempis, 'I had rather exercise faith than know the definition thereof.'" - A. W. Tozer

 2012/8/5 20:51Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy