| Is there any good in an unregenerate man??|
Is there any good in an unregenerate man ?? Are all unregenerate men totaly narcissistic, that even there good deeds are from a egoistic heart?? Are all unregenerate men incapable of compassion and real Love for others???
| 2012/8/5 16:24||Profile|
| Re: Is there any good in an unregenerate man??|
Yuh know? It seems that every time I bump into one of your Threads/question my suspicion of them having something near a lit fuse behind them increases. :)
"Is there any good in an unregenerate man?".
There's gotta' be some kinna' explosion waitin' to go off with that one, ay?
Is there any value to a caterpillar?
Is there more value when it undergoes a metamorphosis to become a butterfly?
Our only good and perfect God boasts about how He gladly "feeds the birds of the air", "quenches the thirst of the wild donkey", "causes grass to grow for the cattle", and about how "high hills were created for the wild goats and the cliffs for the rock badgers".
So, how 'bout YOU tell me.
If God is so caring and kind with the animals of natural creation, why shouldn't we expect Him to be equally kind and caring towards the creature which He created after His own "image and likeness"?
"Unregenerate" should never imply a meaning of "worthless".
The word is intended to distinguish between those choosing to remain a caterpillar and those who volunteered to undergo a metamorphosis and become "new creatures" ... butterflies.
There are the regenerate who did the works of Jesus, and even greater works. These works follow them and determine the size and the stature of their spiritual, invisible bodies. These deeds are compared with fine linen, bright and pure, with which the saints are clothed. "For the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints" (Rev 19:8).
When "at that day" (last judgment) Christ judges the Gentiles who did not have God's law and were therefore unable to work for their righteousness, their deeds will show how much of the inner law of God functioned in their lives. "They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts". The measure that is used for this purpose is the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, (Ephesians 4:13). Jesus is the model or the standard, and everyone is judged in accordance with what Jesus did or was on earth. He is the measure, that is, the perfect man. Jews, Gentiles, and Christians will all be judged by the one measure.
| 2012/8/5 16:54||Profile|
| Re: Blayne, BOOOMM!!!|
Blayne wrote ///Yuh know? It seems that every time I bump into one of your Threads/question my suspicion of them having something near a lit fuse behind them increases.///
BOOOMM!!! Hey Blayne you have found yourself in a mind field, BOOOMMM!!!
I was bad about that when I first started posting here on SI, which was about the same time as you started posting.
But God has been dealing with me on that subject and the sin of Debate and the spirit behind debate and I have been furthering myself from that kind of tactic.
I have mixed feelings on this thread topic as have many of my more recent threads and am just bouncing Ideas off of others. Rather than having an absolute answer before asking the question as had been the case with many of my earler post.
| 2012/8/5 17:07||Profile|
| Re: |
Yeah, when I myself reach back an' remember how I behaved in some Discussion Forums way-back-then, it brings a flush of embarrassment to my face. It's a remembering of those kinna' occasions when I utter a relieved sigh an' say, "Thank goodness for the anonymity at MouseLand!" (internet).
The Gospel of Blayne says, "As far as my Mouse is from my Keyboard, so far hath I remained anonymous in Mouseland." :)
Ummm, someone happened to mention to me that this SI Forum was at some period previous much more conducive to interaction between members an' whatever. But that the 'powers-that-be' have since harshly tightened the lid on things. Without any alternative, I was compelled to openly speak about my suspicion of lit fuses. Sorry 'bout that.
Anyways, I have recently discovered an alternative Forum which is not so entirely restricted as here and I now frequent that Site instead. Maybe one day we'll bump into each other there. I would like that very much.
| 2012/8/5 17:39||Profile|
| Heaven; the upside down world where power, status and position mean nothing.|
Blayne: Thank you for your post; I found it deep, and edifying. To whom much is given, much is required. Consider the downs syndrome Christian girl; filled with God's love. I have met her, and hung out with her, and it has been very sweet.
You mentioned that we would all be measured by one standard.
"The measure that is used for this purpose is the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, (Ephesians 4:13). Jesus is the model or the standard, and everyone is judged in accordance with what Jesus did or was on earth.
He is the measure, that is, the perfect man. Jews, Gentiles, and Christians will all be judged by the one measure.".Blayne.
Firstly , yes and no; because if one has been truly born again, and his indwelling is the authentic Holy Spirit of God in us, this one will be judged as to how he responded to God, while the unbeliever will not, He or she will be judged primarily as to why or how they rejected God, and the Savior.
"Also; THE FIRST WILL BE LAST, AND THE LAST FIRST!" This means that the weak ones, the last place [losers in the eyes of some, like my Downs syndrome girl..]] people, will be judged by a different standard than the Earthly one; "HAVE YOU LEARNED HOW TO LOVE?"
This is the great equalizer, from the EMPLEMENTOR of the flat world of Heaven, where the weak and the strong are judged by the mercy they gave, and how they responded to the mercy they gave. Agape Love is united with mercy through the Cross, and obedience and favor is given by God to those who practice agape Love, not do great things, or have big ministries.
It is here that the widow and the orphan can shine, and Lazarus, the beggar too, and it is here that the Priest class may be shocked to hear that all of their religious activity in a pyramid oriented ministry that they perceived put them on top, did the exact opposite, and propelled them to the bottom of the line; or worse....out side the line altogether.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity!
I foresee a lot of Pastors hearing this, especially those who loved the preeminence. [ 3John]...and I see a lot of my down syndrome young-uns right up front a dancin'.
The last will be first too.
| 2012/8/5 19:16|
| Re: Heaven; the upside down world where power, status and position mean nothing.|
'BrotherTom', I jus' couldn't resist offering you some consideration towards your comment saying:
->Also; THE FIRST WILL BE LAST, AND THE LAST FIRST!" This means that the weak ones, the last place [losers in the eyes of some, like my Downs syndrome girl..]] people, will be judged by a different standard than the Earthly one; "HAVE YOU LEARNED HOW TO LOVE?"<-
In Matthew 20.1-16 our Lord compares the Kingdom of Heaven with the owner of a vineyard who hired laborers at different hours of the day and after the completion of the work paid the same wages to all. With the first group, who worked from dawn until the stars appeared in the sky the lord of the manor made an agreement to pay one denarius each a day, enough money to provide for a family for a day. The other groups were recruited successively at nine, twelve, three, and five o'clock from among the unemployed standing about in the market place. No arrangement was made with them but they were promised: Whatever is right I will give you. The last group, hired the eleventh hour, that is, after five o'clock in the afternoon, was required to bring home the remainder of the grape harvest. (Jewish law required payment of wages in the evening).
The owner of the vineyard then ordered his overseer to pay all the workers a full day's wages, beginning with the last group. By this perceived mistake, the first saw that the last received the same amount. They felt this to be unjust. Scornfully they spoke of these last who had worked for only one hour in the cool of the late afternoon, while they had borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat of the desert wind. Then the owner of the vineyard answered the spokesman of the discontented: Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you.
The first thing we have to recognize is that this parable is not dealing with earthly matters or even about a reward in keeping with the effort required. Therefore, the response of the lord of the vineyard should not be taken as an example of modern-day industrial contracts.
The narrative concerns the Kingdom of Heaven, that is, with the spiritual world. The owner emphasizes this quite clearly, Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? (the kingdom of God) Or do you begrudge my generosity?
The word for at the beginning of the parable indicates that this parable continues the theme of the previous chapter, which is the story of the rich young ruler and Jesus' statement about the reward His disciples would receive because they followed their Master. First of all, the Lord points out that God is good. Anyone who calls Jesus good should also say the same of God, for Jesus is the image of God. When Jesus restored the sick, sinful, and overpowered people, He was carrying out the will of the heavenly Father. We should always remain eager to testify that that God is only good and that from Him no evil need ever be feared. God only wants what is good and acceptable and perfect, (Rom 12:2).
The workers in the vineyard are also told this truth: Or do you begrudge my generosity? God is rich in loving kindness and mercy. He is exactly as the Son revealed Him. It was not only the Jews who had to know this, but we Christians must also begin believing it too. Jesus has shown us the Father; who He is and how He acts.
In the story of the rich young ruler Jesus deals with the question of how man may obtain eternal life. Jesus drew his attention to the arrangement God had made with man in the Old Covenant: those who want to enter life must keep the commandments. As it says: By keeping them a man shall live, (Lev 18.5). When he keeps them he is righteous and his name is written in the Book of Life. However, the Pharisees and scribes were deceived by religious spirits and had added many extra precepts and requirements to the law of Moses. (The same can be readily seen in many of our denominational teaching in this present day). They made the people carry heavy burdens in order to obtain Life.
It could be said that those who kept the laws bore the burden of the day and the scorching heat. However, the ordinary people were unable to fulfill the laws. Unemployed, they stood in the market place, and the leaders said disdainfully: This crowd, who do not know the law, are accursed, (John 7.49). The young ruler was able to observe the many detailed commandments because of his wealth and education. Because he was not bound by powers of sin, he remained quite able to live according to the will of God. Jesus, of whom it was said that He knew what is inside man, therefore loved this young man for the soundness of his character and would have liked him to be among His followers.
When the young ruler asked Jesus what he still lacked, Jesus showed him an entirely new way which leads through the heavenly places. Jesus advised him to make a clean break with the Old Covenant. He would have to sell his possessions - the things which enabled him to keep the law - and follow Jesus in the Kingdom of Heaven: then he would obtain treasure in heaven.
So it is that Jesus spoke about an alternative way which leads much higher, in which man will even be able to attain spiritual maturity and fulfill the ultimate purpose and intent of God for their lives. The end result of the Old Covenant was righteousness according to the law, but the end result of the New Covenant is the man of God who is equipped for every good work.
In the parable of the laborers in the vineyard, the Lord sought to show that the principle of the Old Covenant guaranteed eternal life to the observer of the law, but it did not offer him the opportunity to put his feet in the Kingdom of God
on the high road of the New Covenant which leads towards spiritual maturity. The man under the law can bring about his own salvation only by effort and the exertions of his own spirit.
Although the first group of laborers did more work than the others, the reward remained the same. All worked in their own strength. However, it is for that very reason the owner said: Take what belongs to you, and go. They went, just as the rich young ruler had done. While the last group had hardly worked at all, they instead received a reward of grace. There had been no opportunity for these laborers to work out their own righteousness and it had not been possible for them to do so.
In Jesus' days the multitudes were the unemployed in religious life. They were regarded as accursed because they did not know the law and had no opportunity to keep all the regulations and ceremonies. The disciples had also belonged to these unemployed, but they decided to follow Jesus. They had heard His words and kept them.
Are we to say this is a poor achievement? Their good Master promised them not only eternal life but grace upon grace. On this high road they would share in His power and sit on twelve thrones to reign with Him. He said to them: But many that are first will be last, and the last first, (Matthew 19.30).
The first were the prominent and honored leaders of religious life. Yet in the Kingdom of heaven these would not have the first place.
The last, those who were looked upon with scorn, the outcast, would be the first, the most important in the Son of God's Kingdom of love
But what do we see in the history of the cultural church? Once again the way of God's many-sided grace was forsaken. Once again the law was laid down and Christians were required to observe various ceremonies and regulations. Again it was precept upon precept, rule upon rule. From those who seek to live a godly life much effort and exertion is demanded. Many believe in receiving eternal life through the vicarious sacrifice of Jesus Christ, but they still think they have to work out their righteousness themselves. They just pray hard and do their utmost.
In our days many are standing around again in the market-place unemployed. They are bound or damaged or ill. What they want to do they cannot, and they are compelled to continue doing what they do not want to do. They are unable to work in the vineyard, although they would love to do so. It is impossible for them to achieve anything spiritually. They are despised and cast out because their spirit is too weak, damaged and injured. Often they are also overpowered by the devil and become a plaything of unclean demons.
Think of the women who make up more than half of all church members and who are the most faithful of all church people, yet for centuries they have been disqualified and discriminated against. Countless numbers of them have not been called upon the work in the vineyard.
BrotherTom, you wisely said, This means that the weak ones, the last place [losers in the eyes of some, like my Downs syndrome girl..]] people, will be judged by a different standard than the Earthly one. You are absolutely right in saying this. It reveals a godly intuition about Gods justice.
Yes, in the parable Jesus spoke of those who were recruited at the eleventh hour. Among them were the mutilated, the malformed, the blind, the lame, and the mentally ill, about whom the Lord said: Compel them to go in!, that is, deliver them and set them free, so that their yoke will be broken and they may receive a reward.
We want to note that all receive the same wages; including those who had borne the heavy burdens and also those who found themselves incapable and had to wait inactively. These all received eternal life. In this way, God redeems the damage that the waiting caused to those who wanted to work but could not. Even to the very end, His words apply: I will restore to you the years which the swarming locust has eaten, the hopper, the destroyer, and the cutter.
Fortunately, we are now living in an age when the stranglehold of ignorance is being greatly lessened and triumphed over. Many have received insight and power so that they can enter the Kingdom of God as proper laborers. For these too, Jesus brings a new message: do away with the old things because they are woefully are inadequate to enable your discovering the purpose and intent of God for your life. Through the functioning of the gifts of the Spirit, the fetters are broken among them; they are set free and can now enter in.
The parable ends as follows: So the last will be first, and the first last'.
In the endtime, we shall be like Jesus' disciples, for we too follow the Lord in His ways of thinking. Therefore, it becomes true that the last will be the first because these last will have achieved spiritual maturity.
Anyone who does not desire to do this will be left standing on the sidelines and will not reach the full purpose of' God. In the increasing darkness of the endtime, the human spirit will fall short and self-effort will not be sufficient to enable him to grow into a perfectly whole spiritual man.
In certain translations we read in addition these remarkable words: For many are called but few have been chosen. The verse mentions many and few. Many have sought to abuse this verse and falsely counsel Christians that only a few will be saved and that the great majority of mankind will perish. Of course, this interpretation suits the powers of darkness exceedingly well. The evil one desires that as many people as possible end up with him in the lake of fire. But this is not the intention of our only good and perfect God of Whom it is said: who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth; The man Christ Jesus -- gave Himself as a ransom for all, (1Tim 2:4-6). However, in this parable Jesus pointedly makes clear that very many from both the Old and the New Covenants will receive eternal life. Only those who prefer darkness to light will perish.
Yet, not all have been chosen. The Greek word elektos means chosen or selected. It is related to the idea of an elite. This is meaning to say that only a few will form part of a select group of kings and priests. Those who have received eternal life must determine to strive for spiritual maturity and and sonship.
Peter wrote to those who were called, children of God, Like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, (1 Peter 2:5). We must make this our aim. In this endtime, God has among His called children a number of selected ones who have answered His higher call and these will rule heaven and earth together with his Son. These are the kings and priests, chosen to lead the suffering creation to full restoration!
Regretfully, this comment will end my continued participation at SI.
Katch yuhs all laters!
| 2012/8/5 20:46||Profile|
| Re: Is there any good in an unregenerate man??|
| 2012/8/6 19:59||Profile|
North Central Florida
| Re: |
"Regretfully, this comment will end my continued participation at SI."
This is a great loss to those remaining at SI. It appears that God is calling His people out of SI.
| 2012/8/6 21:24||Profile|