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vivmeeraj
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Joined: 2012/5/26
Posts: 61


 Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

Saints,

I request you all to share your thoughts on what you perceive as the major challenges affecting a healthy and consistent spiritual growth for an individual and for a local church.

I realize from my humble experience that the biggest challenge is submission of self in the case of the individual. Do you think submission also has various phases, I mean step by step levels? For the church I feel one of the most serious hurdles could be not getting to hear sound doctrines from leaders who have testifying lives.

Those who are deprived of sound doctrines and healthy fellowship come to a state of religiosity rather than spirituality, strong willed instead of becoming Christ like.

What do you all think of deception and a lack of the message of cross and discipleship? And most importantly, what should our attitude be in dealing with deception and false prophets?

Please share saints, I long to hear from you all. Your experiences and maturity and revelations could help many of us to stay on the right path, with the right attitude and not compromise spiritually.

May god bless you all.


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Rajesh

 2012/7/31 2:38Profile
Trekker
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Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

I think the number one thing i ran into in the churches was pride, particularly in the pastors. And it trickles down. Any group is only so good as it's leader.

Then on the other hand, there were churches where that was not the case but yet there was something, some disconnection of the members i could not put my finger on. No real family. That lack of brotherhood or family is the number one thing that bothers me in the organized churches. After i became a Christian i felt really ripped off when i did not find the family that the scriptures had promised me. These people were supposed to be my brothers and sisters. I have been looking for a family all my life. And when i finally found a church where i felt i wanted to stay, then came a major church split where the pastor was driven out all because of something he said. I just think it is all so ridiculous.

Maybe none of this holds any answers to your question. I think it is complex. There is so much disunity, so much pride, and so little obedience to the scriptures. Why are the spirits not tested? Why are not the fornicators in the churches rebuked and driven out? Why are the elders not performing their office as it was intended? And why do people always get so angry when you show them the Truth from the scriptures? And so on.

 2012/7/31 4:18Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

When you say 'spiritual growth' do you mean to say from being carnal to being someone whose actions are above reproach and whose character bears the fruit of the Spirit.

From being doubtful and anxious to being someone who has learned to rest his case and life to God.

The message of the cross is grace and mercy; that God came in a human flesh and shed his blood for the atonement of our sins, redeem us from curse of the law, free us from the depravity of our flesh, and share the goodness of God.

The message of discipleship is to follow hard after christ, to bear our yokes or cross of burdens that the Lord may allow as we follow Him. That we maybe faithful to learn & imitate Christ, His character, His teachings, His resolve, and love Him above all others. To forsake ourselves and become His bondservant for the church, for the gospel, for His cause. To persevere to the end even to the point of shame and death.

As we deal with deception and false prophets, let us remember this:

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matt. 7:2).

To grow, a christian has to seek and commune with God moment by moment, in prayer, in reading the bible, in meditation, in going out and going in. Once we neglect to commune with God and be carried away with sin and trivialities of life then we will cease to grow and will even fall into regression.

 2012/7/31 4:45Profile









 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

"Those who are deprived of sound doctrines and healthy fellowship come to a state of religiosity rather than spirituality, strong willed instead of becoming Christ like." veevmeeraj

Or the opposite. Many, many churches and semi-cults, dogma driven authority and submission oriented churches, are the ones who become "strong-willed" and in a state of "religiosity". This happens because the Spirit of Christ is quenched in the "congregation" by a ONE MAN authority figure [ pastor] ordering the meetings and activities where-in, and calling it ministry.

I have found this to be consistently true, VMA. This usually develops when a strong leader sees himself as the builder of the church, and sets in place his leaders who will submit to his authority, and expands his church plants with other men who act the same way to their underlings. This man, and his lieutenants then become the head, not Christ, and Christ must withdraw, for when man is in control, Jesus is not.

Remember, only Jesus can disciple a man; Discipline him, to be conformed to His image. You may teach doctrine until you are blue, and pursue fellowship until you live communally [ I have]...and not see one ounce of spiritual growth in anybody. Why? Because only God the Holy Spirit may produce fruit in a man or a woman, not a church system.

"Where the Spirit of the Lord is; there is liberty!" Is there equal love, and equal honor in the fellowship you attend. Do you see yourself as under the body, as a foot washer, even to the least? and a friend? or...do you see yourself as part of the Pastor Class?...The ministry Class, that must teach, and control ideology, and precepts? and believe in your heart that this is ministry?

Most are not willing to forsake this model, for it must mean becoming a brother; just a brother, and promoting Jesus's Holy Spirit to come and rest on all, as a functioning body. In this body life, you need the hands and the foot and the eyes, and the toenails. This would mean that some who believe that they are the head, the "Pastor" would have to step down, and just love.


Jesus was really murdered because of this very issue, when the Pharisee counsel stated that "If we let Him continue, the Romans will come and take our Nation, and our PLACE!"...so they plotted to kill Him, and they did.

God longs for a body where the little ones and the unimportant and the weak and, yes, the children are honored and allowed to love and minister equally..it is His chief desire for the body; the church. We cannot make this happen, but we can position ourselves in heart to see it manifested. Are you, or I willing to lay down our place? as the Pharisee was not? I hope so.

Jesus longs to capture His body back, even unto the least, so that he might possess her, and that means right in your own back yard. This would mean a cataclysmic breaking off for you, wouldn't it? If this is true, would you be willing to proceed this way, in Heart, in order to find His glory fro those to weak to grasp it?

Meetings and in the community; the Pastors see to it that the Holy Spirit is not quenched, and the Lordship of Jesus is manifest in every situation and relationship, and as brothers, not overlords. Love the least, and do it in practical and manifest ways. Have the janitor over for dinner and games as much as you would the chief apostle who may be visiting.


 2012/7/31 5:17
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re:

....Remember, only Jesus can disciple a man; Discipline him, to be conformed to His image....

...."Where the Spirit of the Lord is; there is liberty!" Is there equal love, and equal honor in the fellowship you attend. Do you see yourself as under the body, as a foot washer, even to the least? and a friend? or...do you see yourself as part of the Pastor Class?...The ministry Class, that must teach, and control ideology, and precepts? and believe in your heart that this is ministry?... BrotherTom

That's it, beware of discipleship programs that seeks control, manipulation, or lordship over the others or one designed to have multiplying effect on church membership for ex. the G12 movement.

The Master-disciple relationship between the Lord and the 12 disciples is a divine privilege, (afterwhich the disciples became apostles of Christ).

No christian has a right to subject other christians in such master-disciple relationship. Flee from them.

Yes, there is local church ethics as there is site ethics in this forum, but beware that you are not led to something else other than the Lord and His leading through His words and the Holy Spirit.

 2012/7/31 7:45Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

The greatest enemy to individual spiritual growth is self. A man should decrease and Christ should increase. But many do not want to decrease themselves, which includes humble spirit and thinking in terms of pleasing God than oneself. Also rellaying on one's strength than on Christ is a major reason why many do not receive grace upon grace. Also submission to authority is also a must. In short there should be a self decreasing path.

With respect to churches, I do not believe that lack of right doctrine as a reason. It is not the doctrine that is important but the attitude. What is the use if I know all the truth but never follow them? Even if the church eldership is not accurate in doctrine if their attitude is to follow and seek the truth then Christ will lead them to right doctrine.

Regarding lack of fellowship in a church, it can be related to lack of submission to head of the church who is Christ. My right hand fellowships with left hand and they together lift things not because they like each other or they love to work with each other, but because they submit to same head and listens to it's orders. A man with a left hand withered(paralysis) cannot lift with both hands though he has both hands in his body because one of his hands is disconnected from head and does not listen to the instructions of his head.


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Sreeram

 2012/7/31 8:03Profile
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

In my experience, the greatest obstacle to spiritual growth is that we do not "hold fast to the Head (Jesus)".

The Enemy is a clever genius at distracting us with many things.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I could elaborate much more on this but I have to go to work.

But when our focus is anything else (self, sin, works, performance, men, etc, etc) but Jesus Christ (who is able to lead you and speak to you the things that you need to hear) then you've already left the narrow road.

I will let the Holy Spirit tell you all the reasons why not Holding Fast to Jesus, is our major impediment in life. Because, He is everything we need, whatever our need is.

This thread will prove what I am saying. People will say, "If we can just fix this or fix that, or improve this or improve that". No, it's now what we do, but WHO we are living and drawing our life from.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/31 9:19Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

But when our focus is anything else (self, sin, works, performance, men, etc, etc) but Jesus Christ (who is able to lead you and speak to you the things that you need to hear) then you've already left the narrow road.

I will let the Holy Spirit tell you all the reasons why not Holding Fast to Jesus, is our major impediment in life. Because, He is everything we need, whatever our need is.

This thread will prove what I am saying. People will say, "If we can just fix this or fix that, or improve this or improve that". No, it's now what we do, but WHO we are living and drawing our life from.

Pilgrim

______________________________

Personally I can agree with this. Spent so much wasted time trying to jump through hoops and "fix" things when all along I just need JESUS. If my day begins with HIM, holding tightly to HIM moment by moment of each day and then ends with HIM I will never venture off that narrow path. IF JESUS is truly LORD of my life then there is no way HE will lead me down a wrong road. MY strength is completely useless and for that matter so is my understanding(lean not on your own understand but in all your ways trust in HIM) JESUS is the WAY, the Truth, and the LIGHT so why do I ever look for answer any where else but to HIM??

GOD bless and thanks pilgrim for sharing
mj

 2012/7/31 9:43Profile
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

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geraldine

 2012/7/31 11:55Profile
vivmeeraj
Member



Joined: 2012/5/26
Posts: 61


 Re: Request saints to throw light on hurdles in spiritual growth

Dear brothers and sisters,

Thank you all for your responses. They were extremely challenging and thought provoking and personally, I have learnt a lot from you all.

May god bless you all abundantly.


rajesh


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Rajesh

 2012/8/2 3:37Profile





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