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 Re:

I will share one personal testimony. It is not related to guns or the situation just described. But it does tell of the power found in the name of Jesus.

I live in central Arkansas. We are on the fringes of tornado alley. Tornadoes are something we take very seriously. When a storm is developing we listen to the reports carefully. When a warning is given we head to a shelter or an inner room. Because lives are in danger. Lest any think I dramatize talk with someone who lives in the Midwest.

Two years ago a series of spring storms came through Little Rock. I was in the house listening to the report. The siren had gone off. We really do not have a safe room or a basement. The tornado was near as the rain and hail were intensifying and the trees were whipping around. I need not say I was apprenhensive. And concerned about the harm that could be done.

Thus I walked to the west of the house. I lifted my hands palms outward. Several times I rebuked the storm in the name of Jesus and kept saying Peace! Be still! Dissipate!

God be praised! In a matter of minutes the storm was dissipated. All was quiet. We were delivered. So there is power in the name of Jesus.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/31 14:18
pilgrim777
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Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Quote:
Jesus was sometimes asked questions that required straight up answers. But he felt no obligation to answer.

Sometimes you have to change the question. Your question a case where there are some who can see much further in the field of ethics - and question the wisdom of such a question.

Diane



This is why I mentioned that the "hypothetical" questions were going to start coming. And of course the one that always is at the top of the list is the most horrible and egregious thing that can be thought of.

So, are we supposed to think about the most horrible things that can happen to us and then make man-made preparations for them or are we suppose to walk in peace and trust the Lord.

I wonder what the Corrie Ten Boom's family would have done if they knew the future? Looking back, I think we could all agree that it would have been a shame if they fled Holland for the U.S.A. when WWII broke out.

Don't we teach that nothing happens in a Christian's life unless the Lord has ordained it? And, "All things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to His purposes?"

Pilgrim

 2012/7/31 15:41Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

I again can't agree with the "situational ethics" angle being put forth.

It is astounding to me that those who follow the Lord are unsure as to what they would do..... or that they need to stop and mull it over. Absolutely incredible to me.

Who I am determines what my reactions will be in every circumstance. The "situation" be hanged... it is irrelevant. I will bring forth the fruit in my heart in that and every "situation". It is not the "situation" I am driving at.... but what is in the heart. Circumstances simply bring to the surface what is actually there.

@ roadsign You stated

Quote:
If only life could be managed that way!!!! Why - we could have control. It’s a temptation - a bite from the proverbial fruit in the Garden of Eden.



But in fact we DO manage it exactly that way every single day. For example...I will choose to go home to my wife and kids tonight and have dinner with them. We may even watch a few of the Olympic events together this evening. This healthy time spent with my family will happen for one reason...my wife and I choose to do so. The reason we will choose this is because of the God that we follow and His presence in our hearts. However, if I choose to I can just as easily hang a left at the end of the street and in 5 hours be in Canada never to return to this town again. I have a passport..credit cards..cash..etc. You will make a similar choice every day as well. We will all choose to be faithful or commit adultery.... tell the truth or lie..... speak grace or hate.... be merciful or judgemental....honor our spouse or dishonor them. However, that choice will be entirely up to you (us). I will choose to go home to my family or abandon them.... as will we all. As I said, the situation is irrelevant. It is simply the circumstance that helps us discover what is actually in our hearts. Many of us have very little insight as to what is really in there.

This exercise is one that helps us discover what we really believe and hold dear. The strength is that the time limit surfaces what is there.... no time to talk ourselves into one thing or another...120 seconds to respond.

I am also surprised that so many folks would seem to be fine with watching their wife and/or family sexually assaulted and murdered. Perhaps shocked is closer to the correct word.

Two clarifications on the original question-

1. This is obviously not "persecution" for being a believer. Some of the stances took that position... but this is not persecution for ones faith. This is just blatant sin and lawlessness. There is obviously a strong difference in scripture between persecution for following Christ and plain old crime committed against people with no reference to their faith at all.

@ Lorijean - nice find with the quote you shared about this very thing.

2. Some believe they may enter that room proclaiming Jesus name, yelling in tongues, etc. and that will cause the bad guys to flee. I know of a few stories where that happened. I also know of some where the bad guys did not flee at the prayer and followed through with their plans after killing the person who entered praying out loud against them. For the sake of this question what if they do not flee... what if they punk you out on the ground as well now making you watch it happen to all your family first before sending you into eternity... not for your faith....just because of the lust of their flesh. You could have stopped all this... but didn't. Was it the right choice?

120 seconds and it begins...what would you do?

 2012/7/31 16:48Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
I will choose to go home to my family or abandon them....


Do you ponder over such decisions each day? You probably act according to well-engrained habits that took shape long ago.


Quote:
As I said, the situation is irrelevant. It is simply the circumstance that helps us discover what is actually in our hearts.


What we determine today to do in a hypothetical situation does not determine what we actually will do in the moment of crisis. Remember, Peter was determined that he would not deny Jesus - but he did, to his utter humiliation.

Intention does not determine our character quality. But, then failures do not necessarily either. Failures can help strengthen our character, if we learn through them.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/7/31 17:20Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
It is not the "situation" I am driving at.... but what is in the heart.



What we believe is in our heart and what is actually there are not necessarily synonymous. Only God knows, and he uses testings to help us know. Remember, ancient Israel was determined they would remain faithful to the Lord. They didn't.


I would like to respond to hostile threats like Corrie Ten Boon's sister did in the concentration camp. I doubt that I have the constitution to at the present time.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/7/31 17:26Profile









 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

A Nail Gun is great, easy cheesie, better than hammering.

Should a Christian own a gun, sure they can.

If it's for protection, I don't think it should be used for that. I mean, pointing a gun at someone for protection? Pointing it at an animal is one thing, but at another human being, that doesn't sit well with me. Hunting for sport or meat is up to the individual believer. Personally I have no trouble with it.

 2012/7/31 17:46
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Quote:
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I again can't agree with the "situational ethics" angle being put forth.

It is astounding to me that those who follow the Lord are unsure as to what they would do..... or that they need to stop and mull it over. Absolutely incredible to me.



I am confident that as Christ works in me each day to will and to do for His good pleasure that He will work through me at that critical time, just like He does now in all of life's surprising circumstances.

After-all, He cautions us not to worry about what we will say when we are delivered up to the authorities, so why can't we be confident in Him that He will show us what to do in life's future situations? Does He really want us to perform mental gymnastics and try to figure out every possible heinous thing that COULD happen to us, so that we can prepare ahead of time?

Be careful that you are not presupposing God's will in the future situations that you have already deliberated about. Is that really being led by the Spirit? Are you not looking at this subject, carnally?

God's ways are not our ways, my friend.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/31 18:24Profile
Jonathan66
Member



Joined: 2011/12/19
Posts: 1


 Re:

Did not Christ tell his disciples to take a sword with them on their journey? If they were to take a sword we should not feel hesitant on using a gun to protect our families or ourselves.

 2012/7/31 20:54Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Did not Christ tell his disciples to take a sword with them on their journey? If they were to take a sword we should not feel hesitant on using a gun to protect our families or ourselves.


If we wish to be literal here, we must note that Christ is referring to journeys. Paul of all people should have applied this text because he faced so many dangers on his journey. Did he have a sword?

What about the many believers who had no means of defense available to them – not even a door to lock. This question would be irrelevant for many Christians. It applies to the privileged in a nation where laws permit it.

As you see, my concern has been over the thread’s question itself. Aside from the issue of self protection, I see such a question as divisive – because it places everyone in one of two categories: the nay-sayers and the yea-sayers. You can never have unity on the matter. One side will necessarily see the other as in error. And you know where that goes. They will separate themselves from each other according to opinion. That’s why the question is faulty.

Let’s apply Romans 14. Instead of food practices, apply it to guns. “One man’s faith allows him to have a gun, another man, not.” But what side has the weaker faith? (It’s the other side, right?)

Moving on with Romans 14: “He who has a gun, uses it to the Lord and gives thanks. He who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to the Lord. If we live, we live to the Lord; if we die we die to the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. You then, why do you judge your brother?”

Rom. 14 finishes with the words, “Everything that does not come from faith is sin.” That's the watershed mark: our ability to trust God.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/7/31 21:47Profile
Zionshield
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Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?





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Randy Lambert

 2012/7/31 23:50Profile





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