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MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.

Meanwhile a preoccupation with hypothetical situations may rob us of the mental space and time needed to build our faith.


Diane
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I thought what you shared here was spot on! I stopped with all the "what ifs" awhile ago. I see those kinds of scenarios as attacks from the enemy for just the reason you shared, they get our minds off of JESUS and on to self and how we would react...

Keep my eyes on the LORD and HE will take care of the rest :)

God bless
mj

 2012/7/31 9:34Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

I am finding it very interesting that almost no one is able, or willing, to answer the question I posed in a direct manner. I have asked it in two threads now and except for a couple of responses virtually every post "asks another question", or "looks at another angle" or takes the discussion away from the topic and hijacks the thought to a different area..... but will not answer the question straight up or down.

Why is that? Fear..possibly. Sticking ones head in the sand...maybe. Just uncomfortable addressing such a topic...it could be. Something else...might be.

Hmmm... what does that tell me?

Does anyone have the courage of convictions to straight up declare they would save their daughters and wives from rape and murder with the use of deadly force?

Does anyone have the courage of convictions to straight up declare they would NOT save their daughters and wives from rape and murder with the use of deadly force and just leave whatever happens to them in God's hands?

I found the most interesting response to be the one where the poster said he would wait until they killed his family and THEN use deadly force. I did not anticipate someone giving that response.

@ roadsign - the question isn't about situational ethics. What I am looking to discover is how the ethics we who call ourselves Christians are played out in high trauma situations. In essence, how does our belief in Christ affect our actions in ultra high stress environments. How do we who call ourselves Christians respond when it isn't easy and unforseen destruction potentially rears its head. This gets much deeper into the heart of who we are. You never really know what you or others are made of, and adhere to, until we face things that place us under pressure to the point of it "revealing by fire" what we are inside.

So, again I am asking for a straight up answer.... you have 120 seconds to save the lives of your wife and daughters from rape and having their throats slit. Or....you can just leave it in God's hands and choose another course of action. If so what course would you choose.

Which is it...what exactly would you do?

 2012/7/31 9:50Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

I don't know if I would save them (I might die) but if someone broke into my house and did not have a weapon, I would try to physically subdue them. If they had a weapon, I would probably die trying to take it away. My wife and daughters know the Lord, by the way. They would not be able to subdue him, but they would be praying loudly in the Spirit, I am sure.

Again, if he had no weapon, I would probably subdue him as I am a pretty big guy and in good shape. But, I can't trust in myself.

Pilgrim

P.S. I don't keep my firearms at my house. It helps me to trust the Lord 100% rather than trust a false security. And He has taken care of us for 23 years. No alarms on the house, no dogs, just GOD.

Next hypothetical question?

 2012/7/31 10:04Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
So, again I am asking for a straight up answer...


If only life could be managed that way!!!! Why - we could have control. It’s a temptation - a bite from the proverbial fruit in the Garden of Eden.


Jesus was sometimes asked questions that required straight up answers. But he felt no obligation to answer.

Sometimes you have to change the question. Your question a case where there are some who can see much further in the field of ethics - and question the wisdom of such a question.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/7/31 10:07Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote/
What does preparation involve. Consider Eph 6: “Put on the spiritual armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you will stand firm.” That points to the thread “Slaying the Giant…” Faith is one of the key weapons in the armor:

"Without faith it is impossible to please God…”


To that, we could add: "Everything that does not come from FAITH is sin." Rom. 14: 23 But faith grows over time and through testings. That’s the preparation- long before the gun is pointing in our face, or company drops in for dinner, or whatever unexpected situation we find ourselves in. We "slay the giant" long before the crisis - through life habits that build faith. Reading the bible and praying are important - yet even in those practices we can still remain untrusting. And then, we are just as unprepared as a pagan. We will inevitably resort to our fear responses – in situations far less traumatic than a murderer entering our home. It may more likely be company entering our home suddenly. That can set us into a panic too.

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.
/Quote


Oh, that Christians would truly get this message in Diane’s post. We must be preparing ourselves in seeking the Lord on a daily basis. We are to be filled with the Spirit to be led by the Spirit in all that we do. We are to do nothing on our own but always depending on the guidance of the Holy Spirit as we make the “Word of God” a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our pathway.

Now the question is “Should a Christian use a gun?” and to that I would reply that it all depends on if he even has a gun. Now I presently don’t have a gun but what I do have is much more powerful than a gun. Now if I had a gun in my reach and depended on it for protection and someone was about to do bodily harm to my family then I am sure that I would use it because I love my family. But I don’t depend on a gun for protection but my Lord in whom I believe will always deliver me from every evil work. Now I don’t judge others who may not have that kind of faith because I didn’t always have this kind of faith myself. I believe that it is not a flesh and blood warfare but spiritual wickedness in high places that are a work doing the evil through humans given over the prince of the power of the air. I believe as a Christian we are to put on the whole armor of God. We are to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might.

Another thing is that I don’t believe the way some pacifists believe that we are to stand by and do nothing. God has baptized me in the Holy Ghost with power from on high and I will not use that power for the destruction of God’s people, but I will be use by that power, for the destruction of evil. The bible says that we are to resist the devil and I will not stand by and allow the devil to kill, steal, and destroy. Now I believe that God can keep my family from the devil’s evil works, and I also believe that if I, my family, or neighbor is faced with someone trying to do evil to them then I have an understanding that all power has been given to Jesus and that means all power is living in me. I’m telling you that being in and under the power of the Holy Spirit I could walk right up and get right in the face of that devil and command him to obey the One who has all power. I’m telling you that God can fill you with the Holy Spirit at any time and any place for any occasion if you have been baptized and are continually being filled and led by the Holy Spirit. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus said wait until you are endued with power from on high. The Apostle Paul was stoned, beaten, persecuted, and almost killed on several occasions but that power of the Holy Spirit kept Him going. But there were times when he was used by the power of the Holy Spirit against evil, like the time when a sorcerer was trying to turn a deputy away from the faith.

Acts 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Praise the Lord, we don’t need a gun. We need the power of the Holy Spirit. Let’s prepare ourselves to seek Him until we are filled and endued with the power of the Holy Spirit.


Blessings…from brother rbanks

 2012/7/31 11:18Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________


So, again I am asking for a straight up answer.... you have 120 seconds to save the lives of your wife and daughters from rape and having their throats slit. Or....you can just leave it in God's hands and choose another course of action. If so what course would you choose.

______________________________________________________________

I do not know. A body cannot plan that far ahead.

However, as a woman I would likely 'scream bloody-murder'. I would trust the Holy Spirit to give me the grace and where-with-all to do what I could to divert the fulfillment of evil.

I daily trust the LORD for his protection. I am a short woman, less then five feet tall. Any one could easily overpower me because I do not have the physical ability to withstand that power. When this reality sank into my consciousness, I resolved to trust my physical well-belling to the LORD. And He has. Anything dramatic? I do not know, but I do live without fear. If I ever experience fear, then I know I am in a place where evil could triumph. When this happens and it has been rare, I pray diligently for God's protection and am very alert to what may be threatening and take the necessary precautions to protect myself.

This Mennonite man who allowed his daughters to be raped...gag! I do not know of any Christian Mennonite man that would allow it! Seriously! And I live among them - this is my heritage and affiliation by choice. Mennonite men would not kill but they would work to protect their wives and daughters.

God bless.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/7/31 13:01Profile
bakary
Member



Joined: 2010/10/6
Posts: 169
GAMBIA, WEST AFRICA

 Re:

if I shot another because he tries to shot me, or shot my, father, mother, brother, sister etc then I am acting out of the fall , as the old law says eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth, if eternal Life is present in me, in any measure the God who will not allow me to be tempted above measure will give the divine energy to bear it. Those in the eternal life of Christ are not persecution seekers but they know because the eternal Life that is working in them is of a different order than the principles that govern those in the fall and in the law they must faced persecution in different ways and in such times they know Gods best , because in such times more Life is being pour in them that they might be able to bear what seems impossible to those in the fall and in the law. If any wish to be part of the kingdom of Christ He should know in that kingdom what must govern His being is the eternal Life in Christ Jesus not the Love he have for his wife, brothers , sister, father etc. No love that he have for all this earthly relation will make him go out of order when that eternal life is working in him. In fact the reason we have wars in the world is because of “ my nation, my tribe, my race, my family “ and any who act in such principles is not acting in eternal life but the fall in the law.


_________________
JAMES F JARJOU

 2012/7/31 13:10Profile
rufnrust
Member



Joined: 2010/1/9
Posts: 241
Indiana

 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

Shoot.

Ruf


_________________
Russell

 2012/7/31 13:18Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

I am finding it very interesting that almost no one is able, or willing, to answer the question I posed in a direct manner. I have asked it in two threads now and except for a couple of responses virtually every post "asks another question", or "looks at another angle" or takes the discussion away from the topic and hijacks the thought to a different area..... but will not answer the question straight up or down.

Why is that? Fear..possibly. Sticking ones head in the sand...maybe. Just uncomfortable addressing such a topic...it could be. Something else...might be.
___________________________________________

IF we are told not to worry about wars, floods, famine, earth quakes...if we are told not to worry about what we will eat, where we will sleep or cloth or selves with, then why would it be alright in the eyes of the LORD to ponder on these kinds of “what if” scenarios?

If I have a plan in my head on how I will react to “possible” future situations then who is leading me daily in my life...me or JESUS?

Its interesting that Paul after being told many times that he was going to meet his end in Rome made no plan on how to handle that end he just said I am going to go...guess he wasn't focusing on the “what ifs” probably he was focused on JESUS.


(I know I did not answer your questioned but then again after much prayer about your question this was the answer I received)

God bless
maryjane

 2012/7/31 13:50Profile









 Re:

Alright I will respond to Hulsey's question. But let me give the rationale for my answer. An assumption must be made. The assumption this being a Christian family. If this were a family of non believers then the answer would be to get the twelve guage or glock and blow um to kingdom come. So I am assuming this question is in the context of this family being.Christian.

Now to establish a premise. The root of evil is Satan. Believing these men were under demonic control. I would employ spiritual weapons.
Observing the situation from the window. First I would ask God to release warring angels to resist the evil. Next run like mad into the house yelling loudly they leave my home in the name of Jesus Christ. I would probably pray like mad in tongues all the while yelling they get out in the name of Jesus Christ

My guess is they would be scared and the demons within them. They would run like hades thinking some crazy maniac was after them yelling in tongues and the name of Jesus of Jesus.

Have I done this? No and I hope I never half to. Would I do It? Yes, because I am legally blind and a gun would do me no good.

But I have heard testimonies of other believers who have done this. God has delivered them. Lysa has posted one such experiece in a parallel  thread.

Anyway this is my response to the question.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/31 13:54





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