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Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 529
America's Heartand

 Should A Christian USE A Gun?

I am trying to put a much finer point on the question than the "should a christian own a gun" thread. I asked this question but it was virtually ignored. This "hypothetical" is actually based pretty closely on an incident in Texas a few years back.

I am assuming in the question you are a male. However, if you are a female remove the mother (yourself) from the scene and suppose you walked upon it and it was just your two daughters in the house... in either case ... what would you do?


What if you came home to find your wife beaten and tied to a kitchen chair with duct tape. Your two teenage daughters also beaten, bound feet and hands and laying on the floor. Two men are in your house that did this. They are eating the supper on the table prepared by your family. You see the situation through the door window but they did not spot you. However, you do hear them tell your wife and daughters that they are going to rape them after they eat and then slit their throats. They are going to make your wife watch your daughters be raped and killed before they do the same to her. These men have no guns. They were just bigger and stronger. HOWEVER, you have a shotgun and pistol in your workshop in the back. You can get one of those firearms and save your wife and daughters from rape and murder... or you can let it happen... or you can call the police who will make out a nice report when they come to work the murder scene in a couple of hours. Bottom line...you step in and make a move to save your wife and daughters from rape and murder now or it will happen starting in 2 minutes.

You now have 120 seconds before it begins.... what do you do? The clock is now ticking......

 2012/7/30 21:26Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

Quote:
This "hypothetical" is actually based pretty closely on an incident in Texas a few years back.

What if ….

You now have 120 seconds before it begins.... what do you do? The clock is now ticking......



Just a quick interjection. This way of doing ethics is called “situation ethics”. It is falling into disfavor.

For now, I offer a few quotes that reflect a different approach:

“Ethics is about people not about actions. The heart of ethics lies in the formation of character. Once out in the “battlefield” it is too late.”

An example is given of a doctor who handled an emergency badly and a child died. I quote: “It wasn’t on that day that he failed – but 39 years before.” He had not prepared adequately for his profession. “Ethics is not primarily about the operating room. It’s about the training field, the practice hall, the library, mentoring session…. The battle for the lost child was lost on the golf course. (…) By putting the emphasis on the operation room, (or any location of crisis) contemporary ethics makes moral life seem like AN AGONY OF IMPOSSIBLE CHOICES.

“The great majority of life is spent in preparation: This is where the emphasis in Christian ethics needs to be. And the experience of grace in the moment of crisis, of decision – the ‘situation’ come not through being clever or inspired in the moment, but through the habits formed through life preparation. S. Wells

That raises the question: Biblically speaking, what life habits shape a person for those times of moral crisis?

Diane


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Diane

 2012/7/30 22:25Profile
dvndsn
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Joined: 2011/8/3
Posts: 86
Kentucky

 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

I would not kill them until they killed my wife and daughter. I can not promise that if I used a gun it would kill them, so therefore no I would not use a gun. I would bust in with my muscles *insert scrauny individual* and fight the good fight to save my family from the tormentors.

I would have already called police, and maybe had brandished the gun for a deterrant. Through these actions I believe my family would be saved. My answers are seemingly just as hypothetical as your situation you gave me, though.

God would give me strength to rescue my family.

I believe if one kills another, his blood should be shed as well. I do not believe equal punishment is defined in Scripture in the case of a rape, but killing is clearly defined. I would take equal action if I came in just as they killed my family.

 2012/7/30 22:34Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

Having pondered and read related materials, the question above
is a very difficult one to handle.

I won't condemn nor demean a christian who will use deadly force like gun in such a clear and present danger to himself and his family and where authorities are of no help.

Now, the case is about a common heinous crime and not about political, nor religious persecution, etc.

Our fellowship, basically one can say is a pacifist in beliefs. One day, one of our brothers, formerly a moslem, was shot multiple times by a cal .45 pistol, at point blank, by some fundamentalists from his former group. However, the gun juct clicked and clicked but did not really fired, he went home without a scratch.

 2012/7/30 23:17Profile









 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

what's a gun?

these days its imprudent and unwise to be having such discussions on open forums, but have fun.

 2012/7/30 23:23
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 612


 Re:

Agree, it is topic which one may say "where even angels should fear to tread".

 2012/7/30 23:33Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Should A Christian USE A Gun?

No Sin in using a Gun, Godly Christians use Guns everyday. Most Guns are never used for the sinful purposes. I think Pilgrims Thread /Should Christians kill people?/ is much more appropriately written

 2012/7/31 1:01Profile
Lorijean
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Joined: 2008/6/4
Posts: 46
Austin, Texas

 Re:



Here is another viewpoint from Michael Pearl related to this subject:

"Dear Mr. Pearl:

I have a question concerning self defense in the home and while “out and about” with my children. My husband wants me to get a conceal-and-carry license and to carry a small handgun.

I am in somewhat of a turmoil as I want to obey my husband and of course I want to protect my children. Do I have a right biblically though to protect my kids with force? Also, should Christians go off to war and fight? What about “Thou shalt not kill?” Thank you for any help you might give me.

Michael answers:

Christians should be entirely pacifists in the face of legally-sanctioned persecution. If the government comes after Believers for their faith in Christ, we should be entirely non-resistant, as it says in Romans 13. Likewise, if a Christian is living in a land dominated by another religion, as is the case with 100,000 believers living in Iraq, and the Muslim religion were to launch a campaign of persecution against Christians, we should again practice staunch non-violence.

But, if a believer is appointed by his government to bear the sword, as is the case with a soldier or policeman, then he is the arm of God’s justice and should practice violence as is necessary, and no more. If a believer is the object of attempted random assault by a crazed dopehead or an evil man controlled by Satan, he is not at liberty before God to be non-resistant. He must defend himself, his family, and any other innocent party of which he is capable. Self-defense is sanctioned under the laws God gave to Israel and no where in the New Testament does God revoke the duty to self defense.

We have a Mennonite neighbor who practiced non-resistance under all circumstances. Some evil men found out about it and came into his home demanding to take sexual liberties with all his daughters. He did not resist but gave them his younger daughters as well. The men returned. His daughters became pregnant and bore [children]. No man ever wanted them for wives. He stood by and watched the evil men strip and rape his daughters. It destroyed the family. They had to move so as to cease being used by evil men at their will. He was a fool. His doctrine was of the Devil. He should have risen up in righteous wrath and slain the enemy, like Joshua of old.

I have been struck and pushed and cursed for the gospel’s sake. I have had my life threatened several times. I have been non-resistant in all cases, but when I came across a man raping a woman in the woods, I reached for my pistol and saved her life. To this day she is thankful that I was not a pacifist. She didn’t need a spectator; she needed a deliverer.

The doctrine of pacifism is a selfish doctrine of weak men who are not led by the Spirit and are seeking salvation in their own sacrifice. I will have no part of it."


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Lori Jean Mooney

 2012/7/31 7:02Profile









 Re:

Should a Christian use a gun? Let ne respond by asking another question. Is the Christian prepared to deal with the consequences of taking a life? Is the Christian prepared to deal with the memories and trauma of what will follow knowing they have taken a life of another?

Speak with those who are trained to use weapons in the line of duty. Ask then about the hours of counseling they have to go through knowing they have taken a life. Some have even gone to drugs and alcohol.

Before one pulls out that weapon they need to be prepared to answer these questions. For once that trigger is pulled it is too late

Bearmaster

 2012/7/31 8:44
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Is the Christian prepared to deal with the consequences of taking a life? Is the Christian prepared to deal with the memories and trauma of what will follow knowing they have taken a life of another?


Of course when a gun is pointing in your face or a criminal is lunging towards you, you are unlikely to say: “Please hold off an hour while I meditate on the spiritual implications of a choice I might be making here.” And you are not going to be calm, cool and collected like you are thinking about it when it is not happening. You do not have time to think. It’s a bit late. That’s why situation ethics is so unhelpful.

Hypothetical situations keep our eyes focusing in the wrong place. Let's admit, we also have a moral obligation regarding our calling towards hospitality. Yet we are unlikely to spend an entire thread on the topic: Should I buy an extra set of serving bowls in case I might need it someday? That is a wrong focus (yet we can spend a lot of time thinking such thoughts). The focus is on our own character preparedness long before we find ourselves with a gun in our face or company dropping in unexpectedly.

I draw from another thread, because it is most helpful – and it supports, in part, bearmaster’s reference to preparedness:


Quote:

Reading in 2 Chronicles 12:14 today and noticed something interesting...

It says:

14 And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the Lord.


What is interesting is what it does NOT say. It does not say that he did evil because he failed to seek the Lord, but because he did not PREPARE HIS HEART to seek the Lord. One thing i know is that God never wastes words. Think about it; it COULD have just said (and one would have expected it to say), "And he did evil, because he did not seek the Lord."



What does preparation involve. Consider Eph 6: “Put on the spiritual armor of God so that when the day of evil comes you will stand firm.” That points to the thread “Slaying the Giant…” Faith is one of the key weapons in the armor:

"Without faith it is impossible to please God…”


To that, we could add: "Everything that does not come from FAITH is sin." Rom. 14: 23 But faith grows over time and through testings. That’s the preparation- long before the gun is pointing in our face, or company drops in for dinner, or whatever unexpected situation we find ourselves in. We "slay the giant" long before the crisis - through life habits that build faith. Reading the bible and praying are important - yet even in those practices we can still remain untrusting. And then, we are just as unprepared as a pagan. We will inevitably resort to our fear responses – in situations far less traumatic than a murderer entering our home. It may more likely be company entering our home suddenly. That can set us into a panic too.

Consider this: As we grow stronger in trusting faith we will likely have less regrets over our actions – whatever they may be.

Meanwhile a preoccupation with hypothetical situations may rob us of the mental space and time needed to build our faith.


Diane



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Diane

 2012/7/31 9:27Profile





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