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 You seek for prophets!

Quote:
“ If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.” Deuteronomy 13:1-5



This passage of Scripture reveals something very important about the prophetic ministry which every believer should be aware of.

A true prophet is not false if he is not a prophet he is simply a liar. He is himself deceived and out of that deception he imagines himself to be a prophet. On the other hand a true prophet of God is false if he speaks out of his own imagination. "False prophet" does not mean “not a prophet”. False prophet means leading God’s people astray by one’s own imagination.

In the passage above the words “and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass” points to a true prophet of God, yet because the words which accompany the sign and the wonder are “let us go after other God’s” the true prophet is proven to be a false one. True and false are not whether God has called a man to be a prophet. True and false are whether a prophet speaks so as to lead God's people astray or else to lead God's people to God. The sign and the wonder which accompanies the man, do not establish the validity of what he says. Again in this passage the reason given for why God allows these things is “for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.” This is God’s mercy to the one who hears the prophet because to be proven is a most blessed reality. It builds up faith and makes a saint more confident to speak from their heart as well as their spirit. It is also God’s way of glorifying His own Name, because “And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God.” God must judge His prophets for His own Name. If you say you are a prophet or whether you say it or not, yet in your heart you believe it, you should expect to be judged and tested by God always. If you move beyond this, you will be proven false in the end.

Of course not everyone who prophecies is claiming to be a prophet! Some believers accept that the gift of prophecy in Corinthians is not the same as the gift of prophet in Ephesians. So that to exercise the gift of prophecy, having received it according to the gifting of the Holy Spirit, is a lesser requirement than is the one who believes he is a prophet. The gift of prophecy is given by faith and is exercised in grace. No one should condemn a believer for faithfully speaking through a gift of the Holy Spirit. Others can easily cover all such speech and thereby a believer with this gift can grow without condemnation. Nevertheless some do believe that they are prophets. They style themselves according to the old covenant prophets. They show signs and wonders and they understand the influence which they have. Some become like Balaam and labour for profit and others labour for profit and for personal glory amongst men. Still other believers, who know that they have been given as a prophet to the Body of Christ, have no desire to be recognised at all. They have no style and their speech bears witness to itself. In their speech these men are recognised, yet they themselves should seek for no recognition, but be content with knowing Who they serve.

Finally, we should all take comfort from the fact that God Himself will judge those who are real prophets even unto death if they lose sight of God and cease to fear Him. Read 1 Kings Chapter 13 completely. It makes for a very sobering read. See that there were two real prophets both had their words established by God, one unto death of the other and one unto the proving of a Kings heart to be faithless. The one rebuked a King at the altar of God, and the other wept for his brother. The one spoke truth and God’s judgment on a king, the other lied to his brother. The one who lied, lived and the one who spoke the truth died. There is profound wisdom in this passage for anyone who believes he is a prophet.

I see and believe that many today are beginning to seek for real prophetic ministry which divides error from truth and makes straight God’s ways in the hearts of men. This is wonderful, yet we should not lose sight of what this will mean when it comes. Judgement unto death, both for those who seek and those who are given. May the Lord Himself keep us and preserve our hearts and minds for His Name sake. Amen.


 2012/7/29 7:18









 Re: You seek for prophets!

Thank-you Andrew for this deep word, and presented so clearly. It causes some fear to rise in me, as to some extent, anyhow, I do have a prophetic/seer type ministry.

Here is a testimony of mine: http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/gift-from-someone-else-to-someone-elsea.html#comment-form

I know you know this,as we have talked and mailed before.

[ could you please call me, or mail me soon?]

Back to your word. I was struck with the individual responsibility of the prophet who received the word...and God's instruction to "return the way that he came."

He did everything else right, and when he saw the withered arm of Jeroboam, and the mighty power of God fall like lightening as he spoke, he must have thought "A job well done!"

But....it wasn't just about being God's ambassador of power and might, was it? It was about consecrated obedience to the word he had received.

After that mighty power display, Elijah like, he must have thought it trivial to return the exact same way, or to refuse food....and so he omitted these "trivial" parts of the commandment/prophesy to obey...after all...he had just changed the world.

IF a man or a woman has really received a prophesy, or a word, and I have, it is amazing how many people will try to talk you out of it! and more amazing, as this teaching proves...some will be sent by God Himself to test you...and as you said, even unto death.

Thank-you so much for bringing this holy word to the forum, as it deeply moves me, [as you have done before for me ]...as I received a direct call , as you know, to Eritrea. You would not believe how many people balk, and have tried to oppose this...even right here on SI.

After two dreams, very clear ones, the Lord gave me a third...and in it were three or four Semitic black African ladies, appearing very holy and dressed in traditional colorful dress of that region. They approached me, and one of them spoke, directly in front of me, very close.

She looked deep into my eyes, and spoke: "You MUST GO!..You MUST!"....and then, she raised her forefinger to me, and wagged it back and forth, making a swishing sound with her lips and breath.."shhhw-shhhw"..and fear fell on me like a blanket..[ for two days]...and I knew that she meant I must go; OR ELSE!


Your word here today confirms this as much as anything I could express...and I am deeply thankful for that, and the posting of this teaching..[ very solid].

I have had much carnal fear about this trip, as it appears it could be dangerous...but I am trying to work it out...and I have came to some different thoughts. I could be called there to one soul, one child, one widow...and it would still be the same..wouldn't it...and I could receive great favor and great provision too...as well as suffer persecution.

I do not know, but I know this, I am going, and as ambassador of Christ, if I have to be carried there....or else.

This word has greatly increased my resolve; thank-you. I want to fear God much more than I do....Tom

 2012/7/29 9:14
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

I think 1 Kings 22 is also quite crucial to know and understand when dealing with the prophetic. So much is revealed in that chapter alone. One of the most sobering chapters on prophecy in the Bible IMHO.

 2012/7/29 9:36Profile









 Re: You seek for prophets!

EverestoSama thank you for the post.

In this passage that you have drawn attention to lies something which is at the heart of what I was sharing in the OP. I wanted to expound the point that it is possible for a prophet to lie and yet not be responsible or accountable for lying. You can understand my concern at sharing such a thing, or of having to explain it. This has nothing to do with a man’s heart to desire deceit or else to deceive. It is a function of the prophetic office that a prophet can say that which is contrary to the truth, yet still know the truth. There is another side to this same reality but which has to do with a prophet’s speech generally. Loose speech when uttered by a prophet can have a real outcome and may prove to be at the cost of another. At the same time wilful speech can be even more harmful. The reason for this I believe has to do with God’s choosing. No one can choose to be a prophet. Whereas any one can ask for the gift of prophecy, if they are born again.

Moses cursed Israel in the dessert and struck the rock twice. His speech would have carried real consequences for Israel if God Himself had not judged Moses instead. Elisha cursed 42 youth who were then devoured by bears. Should Moses really have cursed Israel? Should Elisha really have cursed the youth? All speech carries with it consequences, for the greatest and for the least of Israel. Moses bore the consequences of his disobedience in his own body, whereas the youth bore their foolishness in theirs. Moses bore the cost because he was a picture of Christ to come, whereas the youth bore the cost of their words in calling Elisha “baldy” because Elisha was a picture of God’s judgment.

When the King of Israel in 1 Kings 22 asked concerning whether Israel would be successful in war 400 prophets all agreed that he would prosper. The king of Judah then asked “is there not yet one more prophet here that we may inquire of him?” In sending for Micaiah the king of Israel expected to hear the truth because he was accustomed to Micaiah resisting him. This was Micaiah’s testimony. Yet he also agreed with the 400 prophets. Micaiah was warned not to contradict the other prophets and he declared that he would speak “only that which was given to him by God.” Then he lied. When the king of Israel rebuked Micaiah to speak the truth, Micaiah declared the real outcome of the war. However, note that Micaiah then prophesied the explanation as to why he had lied.

“Therefore hear thou the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him. And Jehovah said unto him, wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee.”

God Himself had asked “who will go up and entice Ahab (King of Israel) that he may go up and fall?”

Micaiah was not numbered amongst the 400 prophets but stood alone. He was not accounted by God as a liar, yet the 400 were. The 400 were given a spirit to lie, Micaiah was not given a spirit, yet he spoke the same lie which the 400 spoke. The lie was God’s will for a purpose of God. God cannot lie yet there are spirits willing to lie and declare it before God. Satan Himself even lies before God. As he did regarding Job. Micaiah in fact declared prophetically that which was God’s hidden will, and was at the same time able to know the reality of time and space. He knew the outcome of the war perfectly, yet spoke other than. This I accept is a difficult thing to grasp. But I share it simply because there is coming a time of unprecedented falsehood. In it there will be the hidden purposes of God which when expressed will not amount to the actual events seen. Thus those who are true will appear false and those who are false will appear true. May God have mercy. If you are asking or seeking for strong men and strong prophets do so in the knowledge that the outcome will not be as you imagine it will be. Even so ask! God himself will send deluding spirit upon this generation such as the world has not seen before. Those who are called to speak for God in this generation will speak so as to lay snares at every turn. Thereby will God Himself bring to account all men who in their vanity will not repent. So will false prophets be brought down, as of old and the pure of heart will fear God and worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Yet only those who do not run after prophets and prophecies. Signs and wonders also.

 2012/7/29 13:34









 Re: You seek for prophets!

I realise that some in reading this OP may well think that I am playing with words. To that idea I have to draw attention again to the fact that the” spirit” who came forwards to accomplish the task of enticing Ahab “to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead” was appointed by God by reason of God’s asking. An enticing spirit is not a lying spirit precisely, yet to entice that spirit must come upon the prophets as a “deceiving spirit in the mouths of the prophets”. In short there had to be a deception which amounted to a lie before Ahab could be snared by God. Ahab had to hear the lie and the only people who could deliver it were the prophets. “Go up for the Lord will give it (Ramoth-gilead) into the hands of the king”. This word spoken by the 400 prophets was a straight forward lie because Ahab did not receive Ramoth-gilead into his hands. Instead he died by an arrow through the joint of his armour and bled to death. A dead man cannot receive a city into his hands. Micaiah said “go up and the Lord will give it into the hands of the king”. Again this is directly a lie, yet something happened here which needs to be clearly understood today because of the times which are coming upon us.

Consider Zedekiah who made the horns of iron and prophesied saying “thus says the Lord, with these (the horns) you shall gore the Arameans until they are consumed.” This same Zedekiah is the prophet who struck Micaiah on the cheek after he revealed the truth concerning Ahab and Israel, and said to him, “How did the Spirit of the Lord pass from me to speak to you?” Micaiah whilst he was renowned for speaking against Ahab was not regarded by the other prophets. He was not included in the 400, which did include Zedekiah, who made the horns of Iron. Making the horns of iron, and thereby taking the lead, Hezekiah showed that he was the preeminent prophet amongst these 400, therefore he alone used the words, “Thus says the Lord”. These words make certain what is being said and can have no other meaning than, The Lord says”. Micaiah on the other hand is alone, set apart and sent for by name. Yet he does not say, “Thus says the Lord.” Instead he simply answers, “go up and succeed and the Lord will give it into your hand.”

It is a remarkable thing that Micaiah, who hated King Ahab’s sins, and who was certain to speak truthfully and fearlessly, was despite such confidence, yet unable to contradict God’s purposes, but had to speak a lie in the first instance. Had Ahab not rebuked Micaiah saying “speak nothing to me but the truth in the Name of the Lord,” Micaiah would not have been compelled to have shared the vision which explained how it was he had lied, and thereafter the prophecy which gave the real outcome, its visibility and true meaning.

Today there are more men and a few women claiming to speak for God than at any time in human history. Not only this, but it will be getting much worse still. In the end a false prophet will deceive countless men and women to worship the beast of Revelations as true Christ. Those who claim to speak for God say “Thus says The Lord” without any restraint, at every thought of their imaginations. No doubt some of these are deceived in that they are not prophets at all, yet some of them will be prophets. Many are prophets after the prophet Balaam and not after men such as Micaiah who was able to speak without desiring an effect, that which was a true reflection of God’s hidden will, and still speak the truth plainly when adjured to speak without destroying God’s purposes. Ahab did go up to the battle and he did die, and Israel was scattered without a shepherd. And each man did go unto his own home in peace.

To be Continued

 2012/7/30 10:34
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I am off the opinion that there are no prophets in our day. There may be watchmen but not prophets. If anyone disagrees with me then present me with people who are prophets and I will investigate. Even David Wilkerson was not a prophet. He was a Watchmen. Watchmen can be wrong but Prophets must not have error and I would think lead an unusual life.

John


_________________
John

 2012/7/30 10:50Profile
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
I am off the opinion that there are no prophets in our day. There may be watchmen but not prophets. If anyone disagrees with me then present me with people who are prophets and I will investigate. Even David Wilkerson was not a prophet. He was a Watchmen. Watchmen can be wrong but Prophets must not have error and I would think lead an unusual life.



This is an interesting statement. If there are no prophets today, why is the ministry mentioned in the Ephesians 4 as well as the book of 1 Corinthians 14?

Doesn't it seem a little strange that the prophetic gift would be mentioned in Ephesians, order would be setup in 1 Corinthians only to then be 'discontinued'?

 2012/7/30 12:56Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

by learjet on 2012/7/30 9:56:27

Quote:
I am off the opinion that there are no prophets in our day. There may be watchmen but not prophets. If anyone disagrees with me then present me with people who are prophets and I will investigate. Even David Wilkerson was not a prophet. He was a Watchmen. Watchmen can be wrong but Prophets must not have error and I would think lead an unusual life.



This is an interesting statement. If there are no prophets today, why is the ministry mentioned in the Ephesians 4 as well as the book of 1 Corinthians 14?

Doesn't it seem a little strange that the prophetic gift would be mentioned in Ephesians, order would be setup in 1 Corinthians only to then be 'discontinued'?



As I said in my previous post, tell me who is a modern day prophet and then we can agree that the Prophets may still be here today. Right now there are a number of preachers who profess to be Prophet but they are not.

It is one thing to say the Bible is true with what you mentioned but let's see it in the flesh so the church can say Amen. At this moment in time I don't believe we have Prophets in the church because I have not been exposed to any Prophets. Only those who masquerade themselves as Prophets.


_________________
John

 2012/7/30 14:13Profile
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
As I said in my previous post, tell me who is a modern day prophet and then we can agree that the Prophets may still be here today. Right now there are a number of preachers who profess to be Prophet but they are not.

It is one thing to say the Bible is true with what you mentioned but let's see it in the flesh so the church can say Amen. At this moment in time I don't believe we have Prophets in the church because I have not been exposed to any Prophets. Only those who masquerade themselves as Prophets.



Hi John,

What you 'see in the flesh' and have 'been exposed to' does not make the Word null and void. What you are asking for is the equivalent to the Pharisees asking Jesus for 'a sign' in order to prove His authority (i.e. I'll believe it if you show me). Because there are 50, 200, 10,000 frauds proves nothing, if anything it proves that there is a prophetic ministry because no one creates a counterfeit of something that doesn't exist.

I've never seen a person drop dead for lying to the Holy Spirit yet the Word said it happened. If I've never seen this happen, does it render the Word untrue? Or is the Word true no matter what I believe?

There is a great danger in making proclamations and assumptions based on our experience rather than what the Word declares.

 2012/7/30 14:58Profile









 A vision I had, and the idea that to carry God's heart! is the ministry.

I will add my two shekels to the mix here, and for me, has been a very interesting and clear thread. There is no doubt that not only prophecy and those with the OFFICE of a prophet; IE: Recognized as having been called by God into that authority ministry, were active in the days of the New Testament.

"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul."

......another...."And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch."

" And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

"Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea"................Acts 15:32.............


"And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.".............

1 Corinthians 12:28
"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.".............

1 Corinthians 12:29
"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?"..........

1 Corinthians 14:29
"Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."............

Ephesians 3:5
"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers."

Titus 1:12
"One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

Revelation 18:20
"Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her."


So, where are they today? I think they are here, but our understanding of them may not be so clear. Do you remember the words of Jesus about them?

Matthew 10:41
" He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward."...Jesus

I believe that the prophet, like the apostle, carries up the rear of the train, a bottom of the barrel type servant, placed under the body, as a foot-washer, a slave, if you will, as a brother first; not an ecclesiastical figure. I do not think he should see himself as anything special, other than a called one, a redeemed one.

This thing I know: Revelation in itself does not make you spiritual. It does not elevate you into special favor with the grace of God; It may reveal God...and cause you to confront His realities, but it will not conform you to the image of Him, by mere seeing, or understanding.

Let me give you an example in my life: This happened over 20 years ago: It's about the HEART of God, and that is what I believe is the primary ministry of the prophetic to the church...Carry His Heart.

I AM LIMITLESS! GOD'S WORD TO THE INNOCENT DEAD.
I went into a vision. There before me was an expanse in Heaven, like a large platform. Behind this platform, I could see something like the Hem of the Robe of the Lord, with Shekinah Glory emanating from His Presence as He sat on His Throne. I was but a watcher, a Seer in this event. Everything was covered with light, some golden, some like sapphire.

There was one person standing in the center of that platform; The soul of an aborted baby boy, and I also knew that he was there to make his Petition unto the Lord. I also knew that he was disabled while in the womb; and I knew his name was David. He did not appear exactly as an adult, but not a child either. He began his petition, speaking directly to the Father. He said things like:

"I NEVER SAW LIGHT, NOR DID I EVER SEE THE SUN. I NEVER SAW COLOR; I NEVER KNEW A FRIEND. I NEVER HAD ANYONE LOVE ME, OR HOLD ME, I NEVER BREATHED AIR, OR KNEW HAPPINESS, AND MY OWN MOTHER KILLED ME.

"AND THIS WAS MY LIFE."

It was then that the Lord Spoke, in a quiet but thundering tone, "I'LL TAKE HIM!" and at the exact same moment the Lord put His heart directly into me, and my heart beat with pure molten LOVE; a fiery passion so intense, that I would have jumped into a volcano to rescue this child, and traversed Hell itself to gain him. There was nothing in Earth or under that would slow me, nor any fear; any cost presented would be paid. I began to weep and scream with passion; "I'LL TAKE HIM!" " I'LL TAKE HIM!" I'LL TAKE HIM!", over and over. My passion for this soul had become uncontrollable, like a raging white water river surging beyond.

The vision ended, and at that time I was married, and my wife was preparing to go to work, and heard me. She came into the bedroom and saw me with my hands stretched upward, grasping, and sobbing as I lay, screaming out as I spoke in other tongues. Inwardly, I was very clearly shouting, "I'll take him!" over and over. She never said a thing, and figured she should leave that one alone, and she shut the door, and went on getting ready.

I laid there for a short time when I noticed a cloud began to form above me. I was in the natural world by now, and it shaped itself like a box, above me to my right. It was glistening, and it's color was of dazzling sapphire; the color of Shekinah! I have seen it before. And then, the audible and clear Word of the Lord Spoke out of the Cloud.: "I AM LIMITLESS."...in a still small VOICE that I knew was God the Father.

The experience ended, the Cloud vanished. IMPLICATIONS AND IDEAS.

Obviously, when one is taken away in the Spirit and the Lord speaks to you, you must realize that it is a lifetime change for you. I carry this word, the same as I would a molten brand applied upon my forehead, as a scar. The first thing I want to say is that I KNOW that I know that God does not damn the innocent. This has helped me much to understand his great love in the face of cultures and worlds the He annihilated; From the entire OLD WORLD in Noah's day, to Sodom, Gomorrah, and the Plain cities filled with the same demons.

I understood that the Lord watched generations of the innocent born be sucked into the Juggernaut of abominational sin, as he watched these innocent ones corrupted by evil, and because He is Holy, HAD to damn them, as they became bonded to that culture. I know know, that every innocent soul killed by Him , say in the GREAT FLOOD was out of mercy for the multitudes that would perish, and be damned, IF God allowed this Satanism to continue on. This is the answer as to the scorched Earth policies in Canaan; Jericho, Sodom, and Amalek that Saul stumbled with, when ordered to kill them all...children too, and every animal.

Every innocent soul is with God; all of them. "I'll take him." and as far as receiving the Word about LIMITLESS everything about God....WOW!...has that helped; especially in the realms of warfare. I now know that ALL of Satan's might, and all of his wicked armies, multiplied by one trillion, are nothing before the Lord, and less than nothing. Jesus is without limit in His power, and a trillion Satans are less than a mere drop in a 55 gallon barrel in their power. God is limitless. Satan, and all of his angel cohorts shall soon be in the Lake of Fire, writhing forever for their sin that slew so many billions, and all of the sorrow, suffering, disease, and death to the Father's creation.

THE LORD JESUS has the power to bring each and every soul before Him, ever created, and every angel fallen, and He will, and the day is coming when He will collapse this Universe, and every star, and melt it, and begin anew, with a holy and undefiled seed; us. He had the power to rescue David, the aborted soul, and He is faithful, and will not ever leave one behind. He is limitless in His memory, in His Promises, to keep them, and in His LOVE.

Remember, one day He will say something very similar to you and me, IF we remain Faithful. "Enter in, my good and faithful servant, to the joy prepared for you."...and like David here; It is going to be very personal. Hallelujah....yours in spirit...Brother Tom Watkins.











 2012/7/30 17:02





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