| Re: |
Your comments here struck me as being very wise.
You sought needed clarification by asking, "It would be nice if you could explain what your feeling".
You then proceeded to ask, "Does this spiritual pain 'feel' overwhelming, are you easily moved to tears when you talk about the Lord? Do you have an urgent need to pray?"
I was very impressed by your quiet and inquiring disposition; you didn't rush to judgement.
It was only after presenting the above questions when you volunteered your personal opinion, "If you have any of these, I'd say it's what we call a burden of the Lord".
Indeed, a very wise posture you showed.
I was becoming rather anxious after reading some other responses which seemed to be in far too great a hurry to judge the experience as devilish.
Frankly, none of us knows what occurs in a person's "hidden man of the heart". Because of that, we should tread carefully and sensitively ... and even sensibly, as you have done.
| 2012/7/28 10:19||Profile|
| Re: |
Ok, I've read all the posts but am still thinking things through and would want to read Paul West's manuscript first (thanks Paul--have received it).
However, I can answer Approved's post off the bat right now and am excited on 1 thing that Approved wrote although it has nothing to do with my current predicament.
[Approved wrote :
I had another one a few years prior to that and It 'felt' like a heavy blanket was on me and I knew the presence of God was around me and anyone that came into that radius felt something and the conversation changed to a holiness which I can't explain not even to this day.]
This is something that has caught my eye. I've wept before and afterwards immediately felt yes, a 'dark dreadful gloom' like Genesis 15:12 (As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him.)
Everytime this happens (which only happens in my room), I quickly 'stir away from my crying' because I'm afraid it might be the devil. Just being cautious. Wow, its interesting to have read your experience. Not sure though whether I'm brave enough to try this out the next time it happens. Thanks a lot for sharing that.
Approved,I know what you mean by the other paragraphs on crying and so on. Yes, I do cry when the Lord decides to give it to me. But no, this is not the case here. Its not even another type of grieving the spirit when you sin because I've experienced it and its nowhere that painful.
With regards to explaining more of the situation, well its more complicated and I don't feel comfortable in sharing it. I know you all are trying to help but this is something that I just can't share currently. I'll read Paul West's manuscript and the bible and decide how to proceed from there.
| 2012/7/28 11:43||Profile|
| Re: |
I first read this comment of yours yesterday. I didn't think that I could offer anything of value and so I never responded.
Then afterwards, I read a reply from member 'Jesus-Is-God' which was directed to you. I found its content most distressing.
But still, I left the matter rest and never chose to reply to either yourself nor to member 'Jesus-Is-God'.
Today, I returned once again and bumped into your comment. And I wish to pointedly reply to it, please.
Ephesians 6:12 has always remained a constant source of debate and much confusion within Christian circles. But in our present day, there is something becoming even more strikingly obvious too. It is the vicious opposition against those who would expose the powers and speak about triumphing over them.
So it is that I fully comprehend the meaning behind your saying, "We share very little about to others because we would be considered insane if we would".
'Beekpr', you also wrote, "I believe that we can expect to stir up an enraged "wasp-nest" in the kingdom of darkness because we pose a threat to their dominion".
And therein is the key! Those who pose no threat to the enemies of God and man will continue to live happily in "the comfortable confines of religious mediocrity", as you so eloquently stated it.
Not surprisingly, those who have chosen to live in what you named as 'religious mediocrity' are the very people who show such accusatory viciousness and offence against those who refuse to compromise with the enemy.
'Beekpr', I wish to remind you of Matthew 18:7, "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
The spirit of offence is in sharp contrast to the Spirit of love Who is earnest to cover everything; to cover a multitude of sins. It is the spirit of offence which so often causes a rift between Christian people because it is preoccupied with disclosing and highlighting someone's wickedness or supposed error.
When we take offence at someone, we disengage ourselves from him; we accuse him of something. But our Jesus behaved quite differently.
The spirit of offence desires nothing about reconciliation. It becomes easily irritated with those who might trespass against them.
But Jesus did not take offence with anyone. For example, even though He knew what was in man, Jesus tolerated Judas who was a thief and a traitor. In fact, Jesus continued to have a relaxed fellowship with Judas and, even at the latest possible moment, Jesus insisted to call Judas "friend".
Indeed, clearly Jesus loved His disciples to the very end. The apostle John wrote: "He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no offence in him".
Not surprisingly too, irritation and offence-taking always includes exaggeration, a propensity to speak warped opinions and views. After all, in the eyes of an offended/irritated man, things which are perhaps bad become even more so; even risking to graduate into 'scandal'.
Jesus said, "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out". Control this spirit of offence. Because behind it are always the dark powers of violence.
"If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off!".
Disengage yourself from that spirit which attempts to make you act without self-control and responsibility. Such thoughts and acts are no longer guided by the Holy Spirit but by the spirit of offence.
He who takes offence loses his godly respect and regard for his fellow man. He lifts himself up above the other and judges him with contempt. But Jesus said: "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones".
Look around you. It's nearly always the exaggeration of trifling matters which the dark powers of offence use to separate husband from wife, parents from children and brothers and sisters from each other in the family of God.
It is always the irritated man who loses his love and compassion for the other who is fighting a heavy spiritual battle. He knows nothing about mercy being a divine quality!
For instance, when parents take offence at their child, they fail to protect him and remain unable to keep it safe; instead express contempt for the little one. They despise the little one by heaping on him the heavy burden of their offence and irritation.
In the same way, we too must be careful not to reveal irritation towards those who are little in faith and towards those who are having spiritual struggles. This is especially important when we are meeting young Christians who are still working at the first principles, the building up of the foundation, and need time to grow in grace.
So it is that we must be careful and not to take offence at any of our brothers and sisters both in the natural and in the spiritual world.
Jesus spoke a twofold woe:
First, over the world because of large and small offences. The spirit of offence does not belong in the Kingdom of God because its atmosphere aims at peace, righteousness and joy. Second, Jesus spoke of the man who readily lets himself be used by the spirit of offence and irritation. Such a man undermines the unity and strength of both home and church because the spirit of offence hinders the working of love which unites.
A man in whom the offences are being manifested is preoccupied with identifying his brother with evil instead of separating him from it. Instead of helping, healing and creating the atmosphere of the Holy Spirit, he threatens and upbraids.
Not surprising again, those who are bound by religious spirits most often will also have an accompanying spirit of irritation as well. Cain had this kind of religious spirit when he became angry that his sacrifice was not accepted by the Lord. Cain took offence at Abel, his brother, although Abel had not said a wrong word to nor against him.
Because of this attitude the Lord asked Cain a remarkably pointed question: "Cain, why are you angry and why has your countenance fallen?"
Yes, why was his face distorted? Why was he offended by Abel's apparent happiness and righteousness? That was none of his business.
God showed Cain this spirit of offence and irritation, this hate without a cause. Why didn't he just leave his brother alone?
Our Lord asked the pious religious leaders of the Jews, "Why do you seek to kill Me?"
Lacking discernment, the crowd replied, "You are possessed!", (John 7:19-20).
But afterwards, even Pilate had to admit that the 'pious' Jews had delivered Him up out of envy and malice. No wonder that Paul wrote that our gospel was a stumbling block for these Jews.
| 2012/7/28 12:00||Profile|
| Re: |
Don't you know by now what a blessing you are in this forum? I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty of what Blayne has described. Thank you.
ETA: I believe I found the answer already to my question ie as per above. Thank you everyone.
PS : Paul, I will still read your manuscript and write the comments--just maybe not as soon as expected.
| 2012/7/28 13:13||Profile|
| Re: |
Ummm, please don't be getting ideas that I'm sum kinna' super-unfailing Christian 'er whatever, ay? I truly am only a struggling but determined Christian as is the norm for most of us.
Now that I got that sincere pleading out of the way ...
I try most times to write/comment in here from personal experience. And so, my comments about the 'spirit of offence' are also from personal experience.
Yuh see, 'Learn', when I first heard the Gospel, I was reminded of a man where I had once worked who was always talking about Jesus and I mocked him constantly at the time.
So, I became very excited about finding this former fellow employee to tell him about my new found Life and about how sorry I was about my past behavior towards him.
It took me a few weeks to track him down and we arranged to meet on a Sunday before Service at his Pentecostal church.
I'll never forget that day.
I was so happy and pleased to meet him and to tell him about my Salvation. I so much wished to become his friend and brother.
Sadly, this did not happen.
The man smelled the odor of cigarette smoke on my clothing and murmured, "You're not saved! Yer still smoking!". And with that, he turned his back to me and briskly walked away.
As you can imagine, I was crushed by this event. It took me a very long time to recover from his offended reaction.
Of course, it's not as if I thought that the man should have been congratulating me for my inability to quit smoking. But I never suspected that he should disown me because of it.
What the man did not know was that my addiction to cigarettes was the very least of my problems at the time. I had a knife placed at my throat only a few weeks earlier for my refusing to continue in criminal activities. Especially the early days of my Christian walk were both dangerous and difficult for me.
Anyways, 'Learn', I too can still be found guilty of becoming offended by someone or something; it's not always an easy thing to triumph over. But that we must ... so we brush off our sandals again and move on and pray to do better the next opportunity to react in the Spirit of Jesus.
| 2012/7/28 13:49||Profile|
| Re: |
Have you mentioned my name and gone off the topic, Blayne?
I don't understand your post that mentions mine because it goes off into a direction diabolically different than what direction my post was pointing to.
Again, between you and I - "don't go beyond what is written".
Your verse, in context:
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Eph 6:21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
Eph 6:22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
| 2012/7/28 14:01|
| Re: |
No worries. I started 'noticing' you after your testimony in mguldner's thread. Someone that I could learn from as you are way advanced than me spiritually. I do not follow you around and there are some posts of yours which I do not understand what you are saying and some posts of yours that I do not read.
I've tried refraining from thanking you more because than it can become a snare to you. Anyway I also know this, that if you become prideful, God will humble you in due time (hopefully I'm not the culprit that cause it).
LOL, do you feel deflated by now.
But seriously you should share more of your experiences as it can help others in this forum.
| 2012/7/28 14:34||Profile|
| Re: |
Strongholds are faulty thinking based on lies and deception from the Enemy. We all know that our Enemy uses deception and his deception has a purpose. Deception is one of his primary weapons and they are the building blocks for a stronghold. Strongholds are designed to keep us from the freedom and liberty that we have in Christ.
A stronghold at work would be like someone who is afraid of God and has a hard time sensing his love and presence and resting in His peace. They view Him as a cruel taskmaster, and not as the God that really loves them. This fear causes them to put up a wall which makes it harder for them to receive God's love and draw close to Him.
If you bring it down to a level that any married person can relate to then you can understand this a bit better. If your spouse was rude and cruel to you, always treating you badly and putting you down you would not be too apt to want to be held in their arms and love them as you would if they were loving and kind to you. If you perceive someone as hurtful and mean it is hard to receive their love, isn't it?
With God, we know that this would be a false perception based on a lie for He is loving and kind. When we receive a lie from Satan about God's character it will affect how we function in life with God and with others. This is a stronghold that keeps us from living victoriously in Christ.
Seeing God incorrectly and wondering how He views you is one of the most devastating strongholds that people live under. People who see God as a taskmaster, live their lives with an unhealthy fear of God. There is a "clean" fear of God which is a healthy respect for Him, but there is a another fear of Him that sees Him as a cruel, distant taskmaster. This fear paralyzes people and keeps them from trying to interact with the Lord at all. Satan has completed his mission when he accomplishes this in someone's life. Satan wants to make people think that they have committed the unpardonable sin. People that think this way are almost guaranteed to have a stronghold of a spirit of fear amongst other things.
The other debilitating stronghold is how people see themselves. People that suffer under this stronghold have a hard time seeing who they are in Christ. They have received a religious doctrine (lies) that teach them they can never do enough for God and that they must always strive to earn His love. They don't understand what Christ did for them, and how it applies to their own life. They suffer from guilty feelings and always questioning if they have been forgiven of their sins. They lack the spiritual confidence that they should have in the Lord Jesus. Overall, they don't feel worthy spiritually and they lack joy in their life.
2 Corinthians 10:4, "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds."
Strongholds are birthed and dwell in deception (which are lies and false beliefs), and the cure is to bring the truth of God's Word on the scene.
Jesus said, "If you continue in My Word", not only will you be my disciples but My Word will set you free".
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Start now, breaking down those strongholds by understanding that God is for you and not against you and that He wants you to be completely free to relate to Him and to others in love. He wants you to be free to receive LOVE from HIM, and to Give Love to others.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
This was and still is the ministry of Jesus. Not only that, but this ministry is what each Believer is called to as Jesus desires to live through us to set others free. That is how we walk in His steps.
| 2012/7/28 22:08||Profile|
| Re: can the devil make your heart extremely pained|
I've had a great deal of experience in spiritual pain...much of which I'd like to avoid again. Whether it is a burden to pray, feeling someone else's conviction, or my own sins it always goes away when I respond to the Holy Spirit. I agree with Watchman Nee, spiritual pain is worse than physical pain to me also.
The common pain evil spirits have caused in me has been a jabbing pain that is intense and unrelenting. It feels like its more outside of my spirit where as the Holy Spirit is more interior when I feel pain from Him that need's a response. This pain from the enemy is isolated to one spot like from a jabbing stick...it can also be very annoying because it is unrelenting. This particular pain is not accompanied by emotions or anxiety...although I've had other's that are more despairing which has been to me a harder attack to recover from or defend.
I have learned from Watchman Nee's "Spiritual Man" and some of Jesse Penn-Lewis' work on what these are and what to do. Both of these saints recorded the common experience of the saints in their time's testimonies of spiritual warfare. I don't know what you are going through, but I believe it is consistant that if it is the Lord He will either lead you to what he is desiring, help you see sin if needed or He is kind enough to leave you be and try again later. If it is a demon they are more apt to stop when you are convinced they are the culprits and you don't back down, but pray fervently and wrestle against them in your spirit pressing against them with your spirit.
It is good that you have a sensitive spirit.
| 2012/7/28 23:34||Profile|
| Re: |
Wow! It seems that I've been having to say, "Thanks!", to a lot of people at SI today.
Anyways, I just read your comments seconds ago and it was the final sentence which deeply impressed me; saying, "It is good that you have a sensitive spirit".
That is jus' so VERY true, ay? "A sensitive spirit" .... your advice contains much wisdom.
| 2012/7/28 23:41||Profile|