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 ABORTION! Do we really murder?

I was meditating this morning, and thought about ABORTION, and the moral justification that the demon-spirits have spread; IT IS NOT REALLY A PERSON UNTIL "IT" IS BORN!

So then, if you believe this, you have not murdered your child; you have simply relieved yourself of an unwanted mass, like a tumour of some sort. Then, all guilt is washed away with the child's body and blood, and you are free. "I have not sinned!"..[ and the father is often complicit]. I am free, and move on to another sexual episode, possibly to Abort [ murder] again.

But, the Bible says differently, if you believe this sort of thing. John, called "The Baptist" was a prophet, Jesus's cousin, and filled with Conviction power his whole life. Why?

"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb." Luke 1

He was as much himself while within the womb, as the day he baptised Jesus, as the day he was beheaded for standing for truth.

How could a mass, a tumour be filled with anything, much less God Himself. It is hard for us to realize this, but when conception is manifested [ this is a holy union], so does life, and personhood, A PERSONALITY!

I was me that second I began to be formed, in my mother's wound, as were you; A PERSON. I had the same personality then, that I have now, except developed more now. Life is a great gift, and I am so grateful I had an opportunity to live it; to know Jesus as my Redeemer!

To the women caught up in these murderous lies, there is forgiveness, a full cleansing, as we recieve Jesus's love through His willing sacrifice for them. There are about 60 million personalities in America who had such opportunity to live, as we, in America alone.

To stand for them, and those who may be so slaughtered, let us proclaim the truth. Abortion is Murder; God hates murder....and ...It must end. This is not a Governmental issue. It is personal, within and without the identity of the child, and the mother who may slay their own.

A person is a person in that milli-second they happen to be conceived. The scripture bares this out. BT

 2012/7/21 7:59

Joined: 2012/7/9
Posts: 21

 Re: ABORTION! Do we really murder?


 2012/8/3 21:23Profile

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


Abortion is nothing less than Molech worship of the 20 and 21st century.

God didn't overlook this in the past, and I would be dumbfounded if He overlooked it in these days for much longer.

 2012/8/3 21:27Profile

Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: ABORTION! Do we really murder?

Very Good!

It is about time that someone affirmed this! I am glad to see that you include that it is, too, "forgivable" without denying the gravity of such a sin.



 2012/8/5 15:43Profile

 "I am limitless!" and Who will take the aborted? God will, & I would.

I had a vision and experience with God 21 years ago. I describe it below, as God enveiled it, and I heard His audible word. It had to do with an Aborted child.


I went into a vision. There before me was an expanse in Heaven, like a large platform. Behind this platform, I could see something like the Hem of the Robe of the Lord, with Shekinah Glory emanating from His Precense as He sat on His Throne. I was but a watcher, a Seer in this event. Everything was covered with light, some golden, some like sapphire.

There was one person standing in the center of that platform; The soul of an aborted baby boy, and I also knew that he was there to make his Petition unto the Lord. I also knew that he was disabled while in the womb; and I knew his name was David. He did not appear exactly as an adult, but not a child either. He began his petition, speaking directly to the Father. He said things like:



It was then that the Lord Spoke, in a quiet but thundering tone, "I'LL TAKE HIM!" and at the exact same moment the Lord put His heart directly into me, and my heart beat with pure molten LOVE; a fiery passion so intense, that I would have jumped into a volcano to rescue this child, and traversed Hell itself to gain him. There was nothing in Earth or under that would slow me, nor any fear; any cost presented would be paid. I began to weep and scream with passion; "I'LL TAKE HIM!" " I'LL TAKE HIM!" I'LL TAKE HIM!", over and over. My passion for this soul had become uncontrollable, like a raging white water river surging beyond.

The vision ended, and at that time I was married, and my wife was preparing to go to work, and heard me. She came into the bedroom and saw me with my hands stretched upward, grasping, and sobbing as I lay, screaming out as I spoke in other tongues. Inwardly, I was very clearly shouting, "I'll take him!" over and over. She never said a thing, and figured she should leave that one alone, and she shut the door, and went on getting ready.

I laid there for a short time when I noticed a cloud began to form above me. I was in the natural world by now, and it shaped itself like a box, above me to my right. It was glistening, and it's color was of dazzling sapphire; the color of Shekinah! I have seen it before. And then, the audible and clear Word of the Lord Spoke out of the Cloud.: "I AM LIMITLESS." a still small VOICE that I knew was God the Father.

The experience ended, the Cloud vanished. IMPLICATIONS AND IDEAS.

Obviously, when one is taken away in the Spirit and the Lord speaks to you, you must realize that it is a lifetime change for you. I carry this word, the same as I would a molten brand applied upon my forehead, as a scar. The first thing I want to say is that I KNOW that I know that God does not damn the innocent. This has helped me much to understand his great love in the face of cultures and worlds the He annihilated; From the entire OLD WORLD in Noah's day, to Sodom, Gomorrah, and the Plain cities filled with the same demons.

I understood that the Lord watched generations of the innocent born be sucked into the Juggernaut of abominational sin, as he watched these innocent ones corrupted by evil, and because He is Holy, HAD to damn them, as they became bonded to that culture. I know know, that every innocent soul killed by Him , say in the GREAT FLOOD was out of mercy for the multitudes that would perish, and be damned, IF God allowed this Satanism to continue on. This is the answer as to the scorched Earth policies in Canaan; Jericho, Sodom, and Amalek that Saul stumbled with, when ordered to kill them all...children too, and every animal.

Every innocent soul is with God; all of them. "I'll take him." and as far as receiving the Word about LIMITLESS everything about God....WOW!...has that helped; especially in the realms of warfare. I now know that ALL of Satan's might, and all of his wicked armies, multiplied by one trillion, are nothing before the Lord, and less than nothing. Jesus is without limit in His power, and a trillion Satans are less than a mere drop in a 55 gallon barrel in their power. God is limitless. Satan, and all of his angel cohorts shall soon be in the Lake of Fire, writhing forever for their sin that slew so many billions, and all of the sorrow, suffering, disease, and death to the Father's creation.

THE LORD JESUS has the power to bring each and every soul before Him, ever created, and every angel fallen, and He will, and the day is coming when He will collapse this Universe, and every star, and melt it, and begin anew, with a holy and undefiled seed; us. He had the power to rescue David, the aborted soul, and He is faithful, and will not ever leave one behind. He is limitless in His memory, in His Promises, to keep them, and in His LOVE.

Remember, one day He will say something very similar to you and me, IF we remain Faithful. "Enter in, my good and faithful servant, to the joy prepared for you."...and like David here; It is going to be very personal. Hallelujah....yours in spirit...Brother Tom Watkins.

Once the Lord spoke to me in an audible way;


 2012/8/5 15:57


I thought that this thread is important enough to bump it; not because of my sentiments, or revelation I've had, but because of the utter defiance of God's heart and the outrage that God does feel, that it is still happening. THE NUMBERS ARE STAGGERING!


To you and me, it is just the END of letters typed on a page....but to ONE AND A QUARTER BILLION PEOPLE, since 1980, it has been the END of life itself on Earth! Murdered, to boot.

 2012/8/9 10:27

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474


If you recall, I have worked at a Crises Pregnancy Center for many years. One learns a LOT there, I mean a LOT!

Anyhow, whenever I had an abortion minded client, I would ask them if they knew what an ab is, what it does? With only one exception, they all said "it is killing."

I would they ask, "do you think this is the right thing to do?"

"No. But I have no choice"

"What do you think God would say?"

"He would say 'don't do it.'"

"So you are still wanting to go ahead and do it?"


"What about God?"

"Oh, I will come back after I did it and ask him to forgive me."

This is what many abortion minded clients told me - literally word for word albeit in abbreviated form.

FYI, I would refer to the verses in Hebrews 10:26-27: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." I have quoted this with trembling and fear... The reality is that I am afraid this literally happens when females deliberately will go against their conscience in this matter.

I have told them if they persist in going against what they know is the right thing, they will not want to ask God to forgive them: they will be angry people - angry at God and whoever else, but angry, nevertheless.

Many experts will say the reason one sees so many divorces is because so many females have succumbed to this sin and as a result are angry people. Many will not make this connection but a good counselor will be able to expose this connection.

Just an aside. People are familiar with the Amish. They embrace a marriage-for-life as long-as both-shall-live philosophy for life. However in recent years, my relatives who live in Amish communities have commented on the number of Amish wives and mothers who will abandon their families. They say we have never seen anything like this before. They are puzzled at this development in the Amish community.

I have spoken to people from the area who will do taxi work for the Amish. Since the Amish do not own cars they will hire a non-Amish to take them to wherever they want to go. Anyhow, one person told me how she would take moms and their daughters to a woman's clinic in a city about 40-50 miles away. In the course of time they learned this was an abortion clinic. Oh..OH! NO! When they learned this they refused to take them there. They have confronted them about abortion, about what it is and does...these females were so ignorant and uncaring. I have since learned there are Amish bishops who are working to address this issue but as long as parents tolerate rumspringa it will remain. But it still will not erase the past, what has been done will go with them all their lives unless they come to the cross for cleansing. Even then the trauma a woman feels in her spirit once she realizes what she has done is so traumatic. This, I would say, is why so many Amish wives and mothers are running away from their spouses and families. (We were taught this in our training classes.)

God bless.


Sandra Miller

 2012/8/10 10:52Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


To the women caught up in these murderous lies, there is forgiveness, a full cleansing, as we recieve Jesus's love through His willing sacrifice for them.

Amen for this! Yet in this statement, the reference is to only the women who “choose” abortion, not the money-hungry male-dominated abortion industry – the greedy exploiters of the female body. Nor is there reference to the fathers who have absolutely no sense of responsibility towards the child… or even of their own father’s responsibilities in passing on to these young men their duties as future fathers.

Add to that the early onset of sexual maturation in our society and the pervasiveness of stimulations - through the sexualization of culture - the media, the fashion industry, music video, sexual abuse, etc – all primarily perpetuated by exploitive white males.

Add to that the sad truth that young females have come to view their bodies as means to “win” male attraction – and find acceptance and worth through surrendering their bodies to them sexually. The girls see it as liberation- self-autonomy, rights of her body… (values that are embedded in our society).

We can’t overlook the tragic effects of individualization and lost sense of connectedness (which is essential in raising babies). The virtual networking doesn’t help the matter. When you feel alone in the universe, an abortion is too easy a solution.

Add to that the erosion of marriage. Add also the materialistic and career priorities, and resistance towards family commitment. Add to that the pervasive financial fears – aggravated by the media, job losses, housing costs. Fear is undoubtedly a massive driving force behind abortion driven by a reluctance to raise children.

We must consider the plight of single mothers who are merely kids themselves - who do not have the wherewithal to raise a child (or they believe that to be true). In the matter of abortion, there is typically no reference above the dearth of support networks through family, relatives, etc. (Thank you Ginnyrose for reminding us of the pregnancy crisis center, but you know you can’t fix the massive crisis in this matter.)

Let’s admit, key skills and values are being entirely lost to our society –which are essential in raising children into mature adulthood. (It isn’t merely about women saving their babies!)

Add to that society’s failure to value LIFE itself - reproduction – the high calling of having children, raising children, and contributing to society a next generation. Evolution has played a key role in treating humans as products of chance.

The Catholics include the prevention of life itself (via the contraceptive industry) in this crisis. A renown Jewish psychiatrist (and others too) through research have discovered a close association with the Pill and sense of sexual “liberty” (along with the terrible symptoms: drugs, alcohol, promiscuity, family demise, etc).

As much as I grow weary of reminders about how bad our world is, in a discussion about abortion, I cannot keep silent: We must remember that we are not merely dealing with the murder of countless fetuses and killer-mothers, but we are dealing with the death of an entire civilization!

Satan is the antithesis of life – not merely physical life, but emotional, psychological, spiritual life …. and life of humanity itself. Abortion is merely the tip of a massive iceberg – a symptom of a societal spiritual malady, as Jeremiah described as “an incurable wound”.

Christ is the healing balm. It is in Christ’s life that human life has value. And to the extent that his LIFE is birthed in humanity, life will bud and flourish. If we belong to Christ, then we partner with him in bringing LIFE to humanity .... and yes, blessed forgiveness!

Friends, if the best we can do in this matter is decry the evils of abortion, sign petitions, and try to induce guilt in the mothers, we have failed to offer society anything! And we have, indeed, missed our calling. And we are merely part of the sin problem – and no less absolved!

Even as we address societal evils, let us keep our eye primarily on the implications of our calling – and the ABUNDANT LIFE we ourselves have been given in him – in order to fulfill our destiny.

Now that’s LIFE!



 2012/8/10 12:17Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474


Well said, Diane.

I address the issue of females because this is who we primarily dealt with. Occasionally we had a dad whose girlfriend was wanting to abort but he was powerless to stop it. These guys would be so uptight they were fit to be tied! The short of the long is that sin has consequences, some more radical then others. In the end these dads were without comfort because they went against better knowledge and now they were reaping. (One must realize I am commenting on people who grew up in the Bible belt who are religious.)

The most frustrating thing about working at a CPC is that we get insights to the causes of this perversion and how do people react? Yyyaaawwwnnn.."did you say sumpthin? just paranoid.." I wish.

The solution to the problem begins with mom and dad. They must gain a sense of moral purity and how this translates into everyday life. Then ask God for wisdom on making practical applications.


Abortion is merely the tip of a massive iceberg – a symptom of a societal spiritual malady, as Jeremiah described as “an incurable wound”.

Absolutely true.

There was a severe tension between this fact and me encouraging females to not abort. So, if and when they did choose to not abort, what kind of home will this child be subjected to? What will be there to encourage this child to live for the LORD? Will this child duplicate her parents lifestyle? Likely...I had a client one time who listened well to my spiel and then said, "Yes, I agree. What you described fits my mom. She had an abortion before she had me." But she believed she is strong enough to not allow it to traumatize her emotionally.

I believe it is vital that there would be males who would get involved in this fray. Males need to get out of their lazy-boys and go talk to these boys.* Our director used to tell the boys that came in with their girlfriends that they need to keep their pants zipped up when around women - and they just laughed.

Will quit for now - it still upsets me when I think about it long enough.


*Actually, we had an Air Force Lt. Col. volunteer at our center, but as the case would have it, no males came in then.

Sandra Miller

 2012/8/10 12:45Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


Will quit for now - it still upsets me when I think about it long enough

Ginnyrose, I can relate with your concern over lack of male responsibility - while the female carries the moral load for her choice.

The solution to the problem begins with mom and dad. They must gain a sense of moral purity and how this translates into everyday life. Then ask God for wisdom on making practical applications.

I appreciate how you are looking at this from the point of the life quality of the child – and actually the family. It is far more than an issue of murder vs not murder. It's even far more than a family matter; it’s a societal issue. There has been a huge change in understanding of sexuality. Now there is a complete severance between sexual expression and reproduction in a marital context. You’ll see that in the changes over the years in marriage vow wording. You typically no longer hear mention about offspring as a purpose for marriage. That is bound to make abortion less undesirable.

Here’s my thoughts: Yes, We must uphold the importance of preserving life from conception onward. But our Christian message will barely touch souls if we focus only on the deed in itself – and fail to consider the many driving forces behind abortion.

For example, once a 31 yo professing Christian told me she had an abortion at 6 weeks gestation. To her it wasn’t murder at this stage. It was pointless to argue because her mind was made up; It would merely have been a door closer. So I aimed to explore the driving force behind her choice. She said she made that choice believing it was the way to ensure her partner’s love. She thought he wanted the abortion because he took her to all her appointments and said nothing. Afterwards he abandoned her, saying it was because, of her decision to abort HIS child. She was devastated and felt betrayed. Why didn’t he say anything? Actually, the relationship became very confusing and messy. I commented that she was suffering the effects of relationship practices which we were not designed for. We are designed for the commitment of marriage and family. But she said, she had long ago vowed to herself that she would never have children. (see the cultural influence here?!)

Through our conversation and further questions on my part she was able to recognize her fear of being single and alone. She acknowledged her desperate need to feel loved. She also came to see that her ways of “handling” her boyfriend and her choices was manipulative and self serving. She NEEDED him for her own sake. She had become controlling – and that may have also helped drive off her boyfriend.

Ultimately she came to recognize a far bigger sin problem driving her behaviors – of which the abortion was only one. It was her an inability to trust God with her life – causing her to be driven by fear and anxiety. She saw that she needed to put her trust in God regarding her need for security and love.

She thanked me for helping her see her faulty ways and her need to trust God fully. I pray that she finds Christ to be the wellspring for all her needs. May HE fill her heart's longing.



 2012/8/11 8:24Profile

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