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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : When the Constitution “Hangs by a Thread” – The White Horse Prophecy in Modern Mormonism

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Miccah,

I don't believe that it is "apples and oranges." If you know anything about Steve Jobs, it is that he turned to pretty much every religion other than Christianity during his lifetime. If you use or purchase any of his products, would that cause you to share in his eternal condition?

Now, you mention that you have "no idea" where most products come from. While that is a fine thing to say, the truth of the matter is that this world is mostly filled with unbelievers. In other words, nearly EVERY association in your life comes by way of unbelievers. Some of them are atheists, some are Mormons, some are Catholics, some are Liberation Theology adherents, some belong to other religions, cults or levels of spiritual indifference. However, the basis and end of all such things is the same.

It is impossible to escape such interaction in this world. No matter where you go, you will find an unbeliever. If you work on a committee that is looking for a manager, there is a good chance that his religious faith (unless you belong to a religious non-profit or a church) will not be a basis for the decision made by the committee. If you are self-employed, I seriously doubt that your business will do well if you only sell goods and services to those that you are "sure" are believers.

When I go to a Greyhound Bus Station and have to decide which bus to ride, the faith of that bus driver might not be the ultimate deciding factor. If none of the buses are driven by believers, we are left to consider them by other factors. If only two buses are available and one is driven by a reckless driver who is prone to driving the bus over a cliff (or has a record of harming either the bus or passengers), then you can rest assured that I will not choose that particular bus driver. It will not matter to me if the only other choice is a Southern Baptist, Mormon, Catholic, Pentecostal or none-of-the-above.

In this sense, I hope that you understand that there are good believers who are seriously praying about this issue. They love their neighbors in this temporary country quite a bit...but no where near as much as they love God. Many will be praying constantly about what to do in November. After much prayer and study, many will still choose Mitt Romney as a better alternative than Barack Obama. If that happens, we shouldn't ostracize or criticize those who voted with a clear conscience.

We should never accuse such believers of endorsing the Mormon cult...because that would be simply untrue. This is true even if you think that individuals "unwittingly" endorse Mormonism because they think that Mitt Romney (the man) is a better choice DESPITE his religious background.

To be clear: I currently think that Mitt Romney is a better choice as President in this government of consent than Barack Obama. This has nothing to do with his Mormonism. Does this mean that I will vote for him? Not so fast. I will continue to pray until Election Day and only act if I feel the liberty -- after prayer, fasting and study -- to do so.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/20 16:55Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Brother,

I understand what you are saying, I just disagree is all.

If you think that my views need to change, please pray about it. I know that I have, and what I have been given by the Lord, is what I am sharing with everyone.

Be blessed brother. :)


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Christiaan

 2012/7/20 17:18Profile









 Re:

Given the choice between Mit Romney and Barrock Obana may be indicative of God's judgement. Also it may be God's way if telling his people to come out of Babylon. Our destiny is a heavenly kingdom. Not an earthly one. Our allegiance is to Jesus. Not a presidential candidate.

The early Anabaptist had it right when they refused to br part of the state. They saw their destiny to be the new Jerusalem. The heavenly city. This is our destiny.

We are ambassadors of King Jesus. An ambassador stationed in a foreign country does not engage.in the affairs of that country. The ambassador only represents the interests of the country he serves.

We serve the interest of King Jesus. By virtue of our faith in the King. We are citizens of his kingdom. His kingdom is not of this world.

If we would get these truths in our hearts then the decision is very clear. You stay out of the polling place and pray for the outcome of the election. And pray for whoever is in office. Pray they govern wisely. Pray for their salvation.

Our focus needs to be on reaching the lost. Not on electing a political candidate. The mandate of the King. The command of the King is preach the gospel. The command of the King is to disciple the nations.

If we would focus on his business. Just maybe the church in America would not be the laughing stock of hell.

Bearmaster.

 2012/7/20 17:53









 Re:

Bear wrotes...........

"Given the choice between Mit Romney and Barrock Obama may be indicative of God's judgement. Also it may be God's way if telling his people to come out of Babylon."

Amen brother, but one would have to have ears to hear that of course and eyes to see. Yet so many people are blinded by this world and the things of this world and this world's systems. Yet really, has this blindness not always exsisted?

The notion that we would refer back to the cult as to what they actually believe is preposterous. Some may argue that this man Romney, the famous flip-flopper who would say anything to be elected, would not be the man to ask either. Ask a Jehovahs witness if they believe in the Bible and they will tell you yes? Ask a Mormon if they believe in polgamy and most will tell you no, when in actual fact they " dropped," that belief when Congress outlawed it back in the 1880s. Well, not all of them. Govenor Romney's granfather had five wives and moved his family to Mexico after polygamy was outlawed here in America.

Would a cult, in order to survive, distance themsleves publicly from some of their more outlandinsh believes and try and convince the world that they are merely a sect of Christendom? Yes indeed. There seems to be a concensus here on SI that voting for a high ranking cult member would not be right, I am glad about that. A few months ago on my website I called for Christendom to boycott this coming election in order to steer clear of a system that has been totaly bought and paid for, especially after the Supreme Court's decision to allow any amount of money, from anywhere to flow and and to flow in, in unaccountable ways.

Brothers and sisters, flee Babylon. Let the corrupt be led by the corrupt. The days are short, the Lord is coming for His bride, let us not be entangled in the things of the world. Christendom has enough to be concerned about. Let the blind lead the blind, for we know where they end up. Lets not be found in the ditch, but let our light so shine before men, that we can be considered as a city set on a hill...............bro Frank

 2012/7/20 18:38
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi bearmaster,

Quote:

Our destiny is a heavenly kingdom. Not an earthly one. Our allegiance is to Jesus. Not a presidential candidate.
....
They saw their destiny to be the new Jerusalem. The heavenly city. This is our destiny.
....
We are ambassadors of King Jesus.
....
We serve the interest of King Jesus. By virtue of our faith in the King. We are citizens of his kingdom. His kingdom is not of this world.



All believers that I know -- including those here who vote -- understand this. Despite what some might assume or suggest, I just don't know any believers who think that America can or will be spiritually saved by any presidential candidate. However, that doesn't mean that believers have no voice or opinion about what is best in a government of consent (or any other things "of the world" for that matter - I Corinthians 7:29-35).

Quote:

The early Anabaptist had it right when they refused to br part of the state.



Interesting. Upon what evidence or historical writings are you basing the assumption that ALL believers who were "anabaptist" (re-baptized") were also completely and utterly opposed to being "a part of the state" or sharing their voice to the state? After all, Paul the Apostle stated emphatically that he was a Roman citizen (Acts 21:31 and Acts 22:22-29) and used his legal "rights" as a Roman citizen to "appeal unto Caesar." The persistent widow approached her "unjust judge" (a ruler) with her requests (Luke 18:1-8). John the Baptist was arrested because of a discussion with King Herod about what was "lawful" in regard to marriage (Mark 6:17-18).

Quote:

Our focus needs to be on reaching the lost. Not on electing a political candidate. The mandate of the King. The command of the King is preach the gospel. The command of the King is to disciple the nations.

If we would focus on his business. Just maybe the church in America would not be the laughing stock of hell.



First of all, the TRUE church in America is not the "laughingstock of hell." Satan fears and hates the true Church...no matter where we physically live.

And, in touching with what I said earlier, I believe that there is a misunderstanding when we assume that believers who vote cannot ALSO focus on reaching the lost or other spiritual things.

I can trust and rely upon God to meet the needs for my family...but I must also get a job and work. I can care for the people in this land and see them as lost "sheep having no shepherd" while also sharing an opinion about many things -- including spiritual things -- through a vote. In fact, many believers do this.

The notion that believers who feel the liberty to share a vote cannot also care about and reach the lost is simply incorrect. I know many evangelists, pastors and teachers who vote and are in the byways and highways sharing the Gospel with those who are lost.

Quote:

We are ambassadors of King Jesus. An ambassador stationed in a foreign country does not engage.in the affairs of that country. The ambassador only represents the interests of the country he serves.



Yes, we are ambassadors of King Jesus (including those of us who prayerfully feel the liberty to vote). Yet, an ambassador stationed in a foreign country DOES engage in contact and interact with the people, leaders and laws of that country. While that ambassador certainly represents the interests of the country that he serves, he also must live according to those interests in the country that he lives and interact with them.

I certainly understand the views of those who are strongly opinionated about this issue. However, in this case, I think that we must be careful about "pushing" a view upon those who are prayerfully seeking the Lord about this matter.

In the context of this thread, a rumor was presented as if it were true. Why? Mitt Romney, a member of a cult of Mormonism is running against Barack Obama, a member of the cult of Liberation Theology for the secular office of President of the United States. Individuals who are citizens of the U.S. are allowed to choose their leaders. Many believers feel the liberty to do share their opinion about which of those individuals that they think will be the better choice. Like I said, many might think that Mitt Romney is the better choice DESPITE his religious beliefs.

As a believer, I have voted for candidates that I thought were better than the alternative (or the consequences of abstaining from voting). Yet I have maintained my faith in Christ Jesus. It is simply incorrect to suggest that those of us who have done so are somehow less concerned about the lost, incapable of hearing the Lord on all such matters or unwittingly "at ease in Zion."

Still, this thread is about an article in which a person presented a myth that has been refuted many times by the very cult that is supposed to embrace it as if it were substantiated as a fact. As believers longing to be pure in our speech, we must be careful about being given over to myths, rumors or hearsay -- or, at least, identifying those things as such.

I hope that this makes a little more sense in what I am trying to say. I am not trying to disrespect anyone's deeply held opinion. And, of course, I abhor the teachings of the Mormon cult as much as I abhor Liberation Theology and any other religion that doesn't teach the truth. However, if we are going to discuss such matters, we must do so without meandering into spiritual gossip or rumor-spreading and without assuming that those with whom we disagree must somehow be incapable of hearing the Lord on this matter.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/20 18:55Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Frank (appoulus):

Quote:

Amen brother, but one would have to have ears to hear that of course and eyes to see. Yet so many people are blinded by this world and the things of this world and this world's systems. Yet really, has this blindness not always exsisted?



Are you speculating that I -- and any other believer who might not agree with such strongly-worded opinions -- don't have "ears to hear" or "eyes to see?"

I hope not. I hope that no believer here would meander into such an insolent assumption.

I also hope that sincere believers will understand that many other sincere believers who frequent SermonIndex (and those who don't) will continue to pray about this matter. Despite loud urging to refrain, many believers may still feel a need to vote in November. Some may even vote for Mitt Romney (despite his religious views).

The election will come and go. God will continue to be our focus following the election as He is right now. I pray that no one will see those believers who might have felt led to vote as having been "less spiritual" or "less attuned" to the leading of the Lord or that they do not love God, care for the lost and long for the coming of the Lord. As members of the Body of Christ, we shouldn't assume the worst in other members of the Body of Christ.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/20 19:08Profile
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

thank you chris for answering my post.i understand what your saying about the whole prophecy. your right the Mormons do believe some pretty whacked out stuff.

if you don't mind i have one other question, you mentioned that you were praying about voting for Romney, i wonder are you praying about voting for Obama as well or just Romney? i just wonder because i know there are those who feel the exact same way you do but they are voting for Obama.

just so you know i am not voting, i am not saying its a sin to vote or anything i just don't believe that God wants me to vote so i don't.

thanks again for the response
rdg

 2012/7/20 19:19Profile









 Re:

Hi Chris,

If the shoe fits, you must wear it brother, if not, then you have a clear concience............bro Frank

 2012/7/20 19:26
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi rainydaygirl,

Thank you for the response. Yes, the Mormons do have some very crazy views and teachings that are in opposition to the truth of the Word of God. The caution that I am urging in this particular case is in regard to the rumor of the "White Horse Prophecy" and presenting it as if it were anything but an unsubstantiated rumor. We must be careful about lying about that cult...even if we think that we are spreading it for God.

As for my prayers in regard to the election: I should make it clear that I am not simply praying about whether or not to vote for Romney. I am praying for the Lord's leading. I hope that makes a little more sense. I am not going to try and influence the Lord's leading in any way. I am prepared to abstain from voting in the Lord leads me in that direction. I desire to be pliable in the Lord's hands...like clay in the hands of a potter. I am not my own: I belong to Him. I wish to act according to the Lord's leading and not of myself or any opinion of man.

I will say this: I have wholeheartedly prayed about voting in the past and I still have not felt the Lord leading me to abstain from sharing my opinion (or vote) in this government of consent. If the Lord does lead me to such an opinion, I will wholeheartedly comply. Yet, even if I was led in that direction, I would not make assumptions about those who do not feel that same inclination that I may have felt.

I hope that makes a little more sense. I apologize that my posts are sometimes long and I have sometimes been criticized for it. I simply wish to be clear and I sometimes fall short of that goal.

The Lord bless you!


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/20 19:32Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Brother Frank,

Quote:

Hi Chris,

If the shoe fits, you must wear it brother, if not, then you have a clear concience............bro Frank



I expected this sort of response again. However, I will suggest that you have no spiritual right, knowledge or authority to make any such bold assumption about me or any believer with whom you disagree in regard to this matter.

I believe that such rhetoric sets a poor example on how to deal with those with whom we disagree. Even if we strongly disagree, we should make an effort to avoid presenting our views with any semblance of pride or condescension.

As someone else pointed out, there are much more pressing issues in this world. This world is lost and unbelievers are all around us. Many people die without Jesus every minute. I fear that we allow our opinions to distract us from those things or allow them to divide the Body of Christ based upon nothing more than differences of opinion or mere assumptions.

There are much more pressing matters at hand. Regardless of whether or not a believer prayerfully decides to vote or abstain from voting, I pray that we can be spiritual enough to look past such a difference of opinion and see those believers as children of God who love the Lord and seek His face with singlehearted longing to know Him.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/7/20 19:44Profile





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