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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the point of prophecy?

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Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
Evolution does not challenge Christ, but offers hope for a world where hatred is banished.



That explains why the evolutionary community is so supportive of Christianity.:-? From the few paleontological or geology conferences I have attended I can assure you, that when it comes to Christians, hatred is not bannished among enlightened evolutionists. Many of these professors and scientists are very jovial and enthusiastic in their mockery of Christians.

If you bought the idea that "Evolution does not challenge Christ, but offers hope for a world where hatred is banished."...you've been swindled. As a student of evolution for 20 years, you must be familiar with Darwins' racial views as well as the inevitable genocidal consequence of his materialism in the 20th century.

Quote:
This is what I understand from the Bible. Love conquers all, forgiveness is available through Grace provide us by Jesus' sacrifice.


And yet, if the bible is full of error and culturally irrelevant, what good is your understanding of it?
Quote:
But I don't expect the Bible to tell me about archeology, biology, or other sciences. And I don't expect the stories in it to relate not only religious, spiritual and philosophical truths, but also an explanation of gravity or the development of life on earth.But it seems you do.


Nice try...Christians don't believe the bible is a science book per se. We believe that the limited and primitive measurements of science can not discover any truth that contradicts the reality and authority of the bible. Science without Gods' word is like a fine compass without a true north.

To be honest I was unfamiliar with the Quaker concept of inner light. George Fox and the early Quakers preached that the Inner Light was that power of Christ that brings us to direct communion with God. Sitting in silent expectation was all that was needed for contacting the Inner Light and acting God's Will in life.

A division occurred in the Society of Friends about 1827, with one group supporting the views of Elias Hicks, who believed that one should follow the inner light. The other group was influenced by the evangelical movement and put great emphasis on belief in the divinity of Christ, the authority of the Scriptures, and the atonement. (I'm with them second group of fellas...)

In saying that "evolution bannishes hate", or portraying Christians as silly straw men, you have demonstrated belief in a number of self-evident falsehoods. I don't think your "inner light" is working very well. I'd ask for my money back if I were you.:-P

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/3/23 15:19Profile









 Re:

Compton wrote:
"And yet, if the bible is full of error and culturally irrelevant, what good is your understanding of it?"

I never said the bible was full of error nor culturally irrelevant. I said that it is not inerrant (to use a double negative.) I also contend that we cannot completely understand much of the details in the Bible because our culture is so vastly different than the culture in which it was written. As Ron says: We know in part.


"Many of these professors and scientists are very jovial and enthusiastic in their mockery of Christians."

There are bad apples in this community, as in every community. But there are many evolution believing scientists that are also Christians.

And yes, I am of the Hicksite variety of Friends. But the Religious Society of Friends is a big tent and includes evangelical, Iowa Conservative, Hicksite and several other varieties of Friends. We have our differences but there is also fellowship among these groups and work on common issues such as prevention of war and elimination of the death penalty, etc.

"We believe that the limited and primitive measurements of science can not discover any truth that contradicts the reality and authority of the bible."

YOu mean those primative measurments that landed a man on the moon oh so many years ago? Or the ones that have found signs of subterranean life on Mars?

This is otherwise called putting on the blinders.

We are way off the track of the intent of Ron's original post and seem to only disagree. Email me if you want to continue this. Otherwise, thanks for sharing your opinions. I do appreciate it.

Bub

PS. Blessings on all of you this Easter. He is risen.

 2005/3/24 10:23
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 I.D.

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
Evolution does not challenge Christ, but offers hope for a world where hatred is banished.

It may not directly, but indirectly it challenges the notion that Adam was the first man, that he was the prototype of all to come. From what I have gathered you don't believe that there was literally a garden of Eden and an Adam, etc.

There is a security knowing that God knit me together in my mothers womb, that before I was born all the days alloted to me were written in his book, that he knew me before I was born, that he has a plan and a destiny for my life that isnt random or a result of the survival of the fittest or the strongest. It is based upon his desire and plan for my life.

Do you believe that within the human species there are different levels of evolution?


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/3/24 11:24Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Blessings on all of you this Easter. He is risen.

Physically? Which is the greater miracle incarnation or resurrection?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/24 14:04Profile









 Re:

Yes, physically. The tricky part is how Jesus, who worked great miracles and lives forever, could be "dead." His physical body could be described as dead, but could His nature, being eternally different from ours be described as dead? Thinking about this makes my head ache. So I try not to do it.

But I'm not sure about the second question, Ron. The word miracle has always struck a funny chord in me. What seems like a miracle to us is nothing unusual for God. And I also suspect that when things appear to be happening normally, God may be working miracles that we do not recognize as such. So, go figure. . .

What's the point of your question? I know there is one.

Bubbaguy

 2005/3/24 14:37
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
What's the point of your question? I know there is one.

The point is that for about 18 months I have been trying to get you to say that God became a man; so far you have resisted all my efforts. You persist in referring to the Holy Spirit as 'it' or 'Holy Spirit' with the definite article. I think your understanding of the Godhead is confused. You see if God became man He could die.

In passing, I am curious, what do you make of the 'miracles' that accompanied George Fox?

When we 'die' it will only be our bodies that are dead, so the death of Christ follows our pattern there too. But that body was raised, as ours will be. Your belief in the reincarnation, of course, makes a nonsense of this. Which body will be raised? the first, second, third...


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/24 14:56Profile









 Re:

Ron

God became a man.

Thought I said this already.

RE reincarnation, I don't know the answer to that and its not important to me. Our souls have continuity and integrity through each life, and that is the important thing. (And does it really make any difference if we are held in spiritual limbo or come around again until the end? Seems more profitable for everyone for us to come around again. You could even say a prayer for that poor disturbed boy in Minnesota, as he certainly needs them.)

Jake

P.S. I'll get back to you on the Fox "miracles"

 2005/3/24 15:15
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
(And does it really make any difference if we are held in spiritual limbo or come around again until the end? Seems more profitable for everyone for us to come around again. You could even say a prayer for that poor disturbed boy in Minnesota, as he certainly needs them.)

Yes, it makes a difference because the scripture says
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Heb 9:27 KJV)
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2Co 5:10 KJV) You will note from the last reference that every[u]one[/u] has just [u]one[/u] body and will give account for what he did in it at [u]one[/u] judgment.

I don't know what the reference to the 'poor disturbed boy in Minnesota refers to'; probably hasn't been reported here.

I am glad to hear that you are willing to use the language that 'God became man'. The next question is how? You say the virgin birth is of no consequence to you; how could God become man through a natural birth unless there was a supernatural conception? He was either the Son of God or He was the son of someone else; which Jake?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/24 15:58Profile









 Re:


Ron,

Noone I ever knew died twice.

Many people since Jesus' time have had absolutely no opportunity to know Him or the Holy Spirit. ALl of these people, according to your belief system, will go to hell. I refuse to accept that a just and loving God would do this. I also have had personal experiences and read about many other peoples experiences with previous lives. And this is not coming from crackpots, but mainstream reporters and writers of high credibility and integrity.

Now, how God became a man? You tell me, cause its a mystery. And I'm not asking about the conception part, which is physically immaterial as God can do anything. I steer way clear of the virgin part and have no opinion. The reason is that down through the ages claims like this have been made by a number of religions to prove that their's is the TRUE religion. I suspect that 'maiden' may have been changed to virgin at sometime in the past to prove just the point you make. However it happened is of no consequence to me. proof is in the puddin.

Jake

 2005/3/24 16:24
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Many people since Jesus' time have had absolutely no opportunity to know Him or the Holy Spirit. ALl of these people, according to your belief system, will go to hell.

When did I ever say anything that made you think that?

Quote:
I also have had personal experiences and read about many other peoples experiences with previous lives. And this is not coming from crackpots, but mainstream reporters and writers of high credibility and integrity.

Your inner light appears darker all the time.

Quote:
Now, how God became a man? You tell me, cause its a mystery. And I'm not asking about the conception part, which is physically immaterial as God can do anything. I steer way clear of the virgin part and have no opinion.

You resolutely refuse to accept the testimony of the Scriptures. This is not ignorance it is obstinacy. You are lost, Jake, lost in your darkness.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/24 17:41Profile





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