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 Re:

Revelations...? Is that a new book? Did they add it to the TNIV or something?

Krispy

 2005/3/21 15:12
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Here is something about the mark of the beast that might be interesting to watch. It is a powerpoint slide show. I would just watch the slide show. The guy writing the article about it, well I dont if he is Christian. Probably not, since the article is under Folklore and urban legends. but here it the link. What do you all think? [url=http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_mondex_biochip.htm]Slide SHow[/url]

EDIT:
Go ahead and read what the guy says. I havent really researched it out much to see who is correct.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/3/21 15:17Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: What is the point of prophecy?


Brother Ron you wrote;
"The book of Revelation is full of symbols beasts with multiple heads

((( Which i believe to be representative of political powers ...)))

lambs on throne,

((( Which i believe to be representative of Christ ... )))

dragons pulling a third of the stars down,

((( Which i believe to be representative of satan and the third of the angels that fell with him ...)))

the numbers 144000,

((( Which i believe to be literal Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, as the first fruits Bride to Jehovah ...

And as a funny aside i might add is the subject that got me banned at age 14 from participating in the Jehovah's Witness Tuesday night Bible study i was raised in ... They believe that the 144,000 is the number of a special group amongst themselves that they call the "faithful and discret slave class" ... Well in the meeting i heard God tell me to tell them that they were wrong, and that the 144,000 were actual Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe taken by Jehovah to Himself ... i raised my hand, was called on, and delivered the message, stating first that "God just told me to tell you" ... That was both the beginning of my end with the JW's and my subsequent weirdness to any other organized/denominational religious group i've been attached to ... )))

7, 1000 all seem to be symbolic to me ...

((( And i see them as literal ... JW's also see many of the numbers in the Revelation as symbolic, but what makes a mess of it all is when they assign their interpretations to it ... )))


Here's my question... are you expecting a visible mark on the forehead or hand?


((( If it says a "mark" i figure it's something tangible, even if it is something invisible as an implanted micr-chip, or whatever new technology is available at the time ... But praise God that none of our suppositions on The Revelation weighs on our salvation in Christ on this side of the last book ... )))

 2005/3/21 15:38Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: What is the point of prophecy?


Brother Ron you wrote;
"But that is my point. Signs are not always pointers to the future".


At this point in "time" i'd have to agree with you ... For what was "future" for Christ disciples, now seems like my/our "present" ... So i'm not in fact looking for future signs, to me they're already upon us ... So i'll agree ... i think Bible prophecy is a two edged sword, sorta like God killing two birds with one stone, how He'd send His prophets as a present sign, or a short time distance sign in many aspects, and then veer off waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay into the future to tell them about way future events ... i think the reason why so many have become fixated on future signs is that the past ones are past, but such fixation can in fact make one miss what we should be seeing in our present, or the additional lessons that may be there ... Prophecy is just down right fascinating to some and is the strongest draw, while it's scary to others and only repulses ... i guess there's some kind of balance in what comes out of the middle ...


You wrote;
"I just find difficulty in regarding some evangelicals as evangelicals"!


Ha! .... ha! ... This is very funny brother Ron ... As my grandchildren would say, "I feel ya" ... Even on our sometimes opposite ends i suppose you and i share at least one thing in common, the same title from the newer folk in either of our assignments ... we're "dinosaurs" ... You should see the looks i get when i suggest (getting back to) praying, waiting, weeping and tarrying on Holy Spirit ... That's what OLD Pentecostalism used to do ...

i pray your continued strength in Jesus name ...

 2005/3/21 15:43Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

How do you judge which is literal and which is representative?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/21 18:33Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


Man ... brother Ron,

This would be something that i wish we could actually sit down together face to face, pray to Holy Spirit for His guidance and unvieling, and just go at it as two brothers in Christ searching the deep mysteries of God ... The Revelation is something that i wouldn't even want to try and type about in it's depth ...

i've been in The Revelation all my life (and the prophets too for that matter) for the JW's are heavy into the prophets ... Then it seems that after i got saved, and truly came to understanding just who Holy Spirit is, what He does, and the power of His giving me Jer. 33:3 as my life verse, i just began to diligently ask Him to explain The Revelation to me and He has ... i can't explain it any simpler than that ... i read The Revelation, and for the greater part it's not a mystery to me anymore ... It just seems so plain to me in it's words ... And that revealing really did begin with me back when i was 14, and distictly hearing Him say what was wrong in the JW's interpretation of the 144,000 ...

It's the same with any study that anyone else has done on the Revelation ... Sometimes i'll read thru (like one Carlton Hilton did some years ago) and the Holy Spirit just makes the mistakes pop out to me ... Less often i'll read thru and Holy Spirit will show me something else i hadn't known before ...

Brother Ron i rely heavily on Holy Spirit, and i totally believe that diligent seeking incites Him to teach me light years ahead in the knowledge of God ... That's how/why He's able to confound the wise with such a foolish one as myself ...

He's not a respecter of persons ... May i suggest that you try Him at His word and just pray Holy Spirit to begin revealing The Revelation to you ... Then just sit down and begin to read it, listen to it if you have tapes or CD, stick with it, and don't be concerned with time, and watch how He'll begin to put bits and pieces of it's puzzle together for you ... It's a most fascinating process, and a real faith builder in the process ...


In the trilogy (i believe) God gave me back in 1985/87 ... The third book is entitled "The Revelation Revealed" ... That's the one He gave me certain info on, then silence ... i suppose there's something else He wants to show me before He gives me it's finish ...

If it's His will i sure would love to finish it and get it out for consumption ... But then there's two installments before it ...

 2005/3/21 20:38Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Brother Ron i rely heavily on Holy Spirit, and i totally believe that diligent seeking incites Him to teach me light years ahead in the knowledge of God ... That's how/why He's able to confound the wise with such a foolish one as myself ...



indeed, I have to agree on that note. There is an openness we need to have with God for Him to teach us these things in the spirit. All to often we close ourselves to it to stay on a more traditional course and we miss out on so much.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/3/22 1:24Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Brother Ron i rely heavily on Holy Spirit, and i totally believe that diligent seeking incites Him to teach me light years ahead in the knowledge of God ... That's how/why He's able to confound the wise with such a foolish one as myself ...

But I think all Christian Bible students would say the same. I certainly would; at least the first phrase of this statemeent. You see I would use the same language in saying that I believe the Lord has shown me that the 144000 are not literally the tribes of Israel. Where do we go from there? There are only a few possibilities.
1. You are right and I am wrong
2. I am right and you are wrong
3. We are both wrong.
there are no other options. It is not possible for us 'both to be right', so one or both of us is wrong.

What do you do when Godly men who wait upon God come to different conclusions on major aspects of interpretation? What is the difference between what you are doing and what Jake is doing? He would say the Holy Spirit has shown him that Genesis is to be interpreted as he interprets it.

Christians have thought about this kind of thing for a long time and come up with certain rules of 'exegesis'; "what are the words saying?". Then we move on to 'exposition'; "what are they saying to us/me?"


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/22 3:10Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Christians have thought about this kind of thing for a long time and come up with certain rules of 'exegesis'; "what are the words saying?". Then we move on to 'exposition'; "what are they saying to us/me?"



Maybe with this choppy subject a good dose of hermeneutics would go down well. :-D

Also in all theology there is a God factor, an area that we just do not see, the face of God as it were. He is the only one who can hold all truth together at the same time and not build an altar to it.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/3/22 5:44Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Also in all theology there is a God factor, an area that we just do not see, the face of God as it were. He is the only one who can hold all truth together at the same time and not build an altar to it.


which is why I often used to use the sign off - WKIP we know in part.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/22 6:50Profile





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