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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Divisions, Carnality, Denominationalism and God's Unified Church

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In the following sentence you stop using "Christian Liberty" and finally say what I just said. Religious Freedom!! Just-In




That is because the three propositions were not mine but word for word quotations of what Greg originally wrote. The Sub Propositional Meaning header means of its self the expression, grammatically (written form) which naturally follows on from the prior propositions. If I had wanted to express this differently so as to reflect the implicit meaning rather than the function of the words themselves or else my own view, I could have used the word prepositional instead. And just in case you are wondering why I am writing this it is really simple. When you tell someone that you read "carefully" but actually miss the meaning intended then I take it that you haven't read "carefully" at all.

Now you say that the term "christian liberty" is a controlling tactic to put others down. Let me ask you one thing? Judgement begins in the household of God so who ought a man of God to direct his words to when he is speaking about the cults and perversions which take the name of Christ? Things which would not have been possible had the church itself exercised true godliness and laboured righteously.

Finally the only words which were my words had to do with "religious liberty", that being another meaning altogether, namely the expanded or broader meaning.

 2013/10/4 14:01









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ok, amr, lets move on. Greg answered. I said, "Condemnation" is a controlling tactic, not Christian Liberty. If I did say Christian Liberty, I apologize and correct it now.

I am glad to hear that the blame for the many cults and perverse spirituality is not being laid on the Church.

 2013/10/4 15:35









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Hi Greg,

Thank you once again for your answers. The reason I am asking these questions is because there are movements afoot that have tried or are trying to bring many house churches under their particular "umbrella" and I fear that "religious" man (not saying you are) will make the same mistake he has made many times in the past in that he separates from others by creating yet another distince and separate religious organization. The "Gospel Fellowship Churches", for example.

As you know, the Church of Jesus Christ had no "Mother" church in the 1st century and all local churches had their own local elders. Apostles have always been trans-local, but elders are always local. So, whereas Apostles have authority in all the churches, elders only have authority in their local church. And the Apostles did not operate centrally from a big geographical location to control all the local churches. You, know I really don't have any problem with say a Calvary Chapel. To denominate means to "give a name to something" and Christians give names to their organizations all of the time. Voice of the Martyrs is part of the Body of Christ and thus they are the church. Other parachurch organizations have "denominated" themselves (given themselves a name).

To take the stance that we are not organized and have no name is really not as important as the individual and corporate fruit of each house church. What we say is not nearly as important as what we are. If we are what we are supposed to be and bear fruit then our words will line up, but many times people's words don't line up with who and what they are, in actuality.

When you say, "join this movement", do you mean the Gospel Fellowship movement or the "coming out of organizational churches" movement?

Here is the true movement that has been going on since Christ resurrected.

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved” (Acts 2:37-47). This church still exists and God is adding to it daily. They are dispersed throughout the whole world and some are in house churches and some are in denominated churches. There are also goats and wolves among them.

You ask in your book for people to "commit to meeting" and I wonder if someone will be allowed to visit once in awhile without being made to feel like he/she is letting everyone down, especially if they enjoy fellowship with others, too?

I am not finished reading your book, and may still have more questions. Thanks again for your responses.
(Hebrews 12:22-28).

 2013/10/4 16:42
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The reason I am asking these questions is because there are movements afoot that have tried or are trying to bring many house churches under their particular "umbrella" and I fear that "religious" man (not saying you are) will make the same mistake he has made many times in the past in that he separates from others by creating yet another distince and separate religious organization. The "Gospel Fellowship Churches", for example.



Dear brother, I would be interested in any of the names of these movements that have tried to encourage unity and house churches as you mentioned.


Quote:
To take the stance that we are not organized and have no name is really not as important as the individual and corporate fruit of each house church. What we say is not nearly as important as what we are. If we are what we are supposed to be and bear fruit then our words will line up, but many times people's words don't line up with who and what they are, in actuality.



Agreed, amen brother. The people of God whether which denomination if they are in a place bearing fruit this is pleasing to God.


Quote:
When you say, "join this movement", do you mean the Gospel Fellowship movement or the "coming out of organizational churches" movement?



In particular we believe the Lord is gathering His true church together apart from comprised and increasingly apostate christian churches. To ignore this at this point even is to put our head in the sand, proverbially speaking. We believe the burden of what Gospel Fellowships is, is a way of identifying with what God in general is doing in the larger picture. So therefore people can join with gospel fellowships if this association is helpful for them and even call their gathering a "gospel fellowship" but this is not required nor necessary. And if someone is not part of the network of believers then they can still very much be in the midst of what "God is doing". But in the end there is going to be a required choice for every Christian in North America to side with the compromise no matter what denomination they are in.

Also Gospel Fellowships is not about "coming out of organizational churches" for saints can still be in a denominational church and be a 100% percent with the movement. If they still attend the sunday service but gather in a gospel fellowship meeting or start one in their local area mid-week. But as we said when it comes to a point all will have to at some great measure break ties with larger denominations. There are some dear saints involved who are currently involved in different denominations but sensing a lack of true fellowship.

But the only requirement we have is if someone is going to start a mid-week gospel fellowship meeting it must not be under their current denomination. They can still be submitted to a pastor of a large denominational church but the meeting itself must be under the Headship of Jesus Christ and not a denomination.

I trust that is more clear for you brother :)

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Here is the true movement that has been going on since Christ resurrected.

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved” (Acts 2:37-47). This church still exists and God is adding to it daily. They are dispersed throughout the whole world and some are in house churches and some are in denominated churches.



Amen. !!

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You ask in your book for people to "commit to meeting" and I wonder if someone will be allowed to visit once in awhile without being made to feel like he/she is letting everyone down, especially if they enjoy fellowship with others, too?



Yes, dear brother anyone can come into these meetings for they are the Lord's and under His headship. The meeting itself just must not be controlled by organisations and large church denominations etc. It is our burden that the Lord would be glorified greatly as the Head of the Church.
Also it is not my book, I have been a contributor and editor but many other brothers including a major co-editor brother edgar have been involved as well as over 100 saints who took time to carefully review, edit, and suggest additions.



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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/10/4 18:41Profile
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may still have more questions. Thanks again for your responses.



Brother, they are excellent questions and I am humbly speaking on behalf of many other brothers and sisters as I respond. I hope my thoughts make some sense to you.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/10/4 19:34Profile









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Hi Greg,

Thank you kindly for your gracious answers. They are very helpful.

This is a small world and we both know some of the same people. I'm sorry I can't tell you who some of these groups or people are. The Lord is not letting me say anything for now, maybe never. Just know that it is not unusual for people to want to gather several house churches in an area together under one banner and make a name for themselves. It's really the men that appoint themselves as so-called leaders that want to make a name for themselves. It happened in the early church and does today. The enemy does not like us gathering unto Jesus, giving Him all the glory. Satan will always try to bring a work of God into the hands of men and he uses men to do it.

Blessings to you.

 2013/10/4 22:30





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